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Universal basic income doesn�t work.
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The original Israel model probably is a better plan. Each family was given a portion of land.
It would seem then that the family could use the land as they saw fit -- for farming and livestock, for carpentry or other services. They could lease the land out or use the land as collateral but the land would return to the family no later than the year of jubilee. People on that land could work for other families if needed. But at least the family property would be available to live on ... to have a house (or tent) that was without taxation. People just have to figure out how to make this property work for them -- and it is not charity -- but is sort of a system of allotment of property. This meant that no one would hoard land while others hand none. This is not communism since the family's land is not public nor community property.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf they gave you enough to live on comfortably, then why would anyone work?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostThe original Israel model probably is a better plan. Each family was given a portion of land.
It would seem then that the family could use the land as they saw fit -- for farming and livestock, for carpentry or other services. They could lease the land out or use the land as collateral but the land would return to the family no later than the year of jubilee. People on that land could work for other families if needed. But at least the family property would be available to live on ... to have a house (or tent) that was without taxation. People just have to figure out how to make this property work for them -- and it is not charity -- but is sort of a system of allotment of property. This meant that no one would hoard land while others hand none. This is not communism since the family's land is not public nor community property.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'm not sure how that would work in the modern world where land doesn't have the same value and utility, and most people today wouldn't know what to do with a plot of land anyway.
A lot of what I have in mind is that people who have some location where they could park a car if that is all they have. It becomes really tough if people have no place for anything. A homeless person suffers many problems just finding a place to stay overnight.
This is more of a solution than trying to give basic income to people. Note that the leasing arrangement can sometimes be useful -- for example if some manufacturing company needs more room to build things.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostWeed! It grows easy. Or check the internet to see how to make a tent to live in.
A lot of what I have in mind is that people who have some location where they could park a car if that is all they have. It becomes really tough if people have no place for anything. A homeless person suffers many problems just finding a place to stay overnight.
This is more of a solution than trying to give basic income to people. Note that the leasing arrangement can sometimes be useful -- for example if some manufacturing company needs more room to build things.
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Universal basic income is probably something that will happen down the road, though whenever I look at it I always think it won't be until radical automation has taken over most jobs and there aren't many jobs left at all. It remains more of a societal toy model, a science fiction idea, but like with Chesterton's Distributivism or other fanciful ideas I don't think there's a set of continuous changes we can apply to society to take us there in a meaningful way.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostUniversal basic income is probably something that will happen down the road, though whenever I look at it I always think it won't be until radical automation has taken over most jobs and there aren't many jobs left at all. It remains more of a societal toy model, a science fiction idea, but like with Chesterton's Distributivism or other fanciful ideas I don't think there's a set of continuous changes we can apply to society to take us there in a meaningful way.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI don't think automation will ever eliminate most jobs. Just like computers didn't.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI made a whole career out of building and repairing computers that were supposed to put millions of people out of work!
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI don't think automation will ever eliminate most jobs. Just like computers didn't ... People have been crying about automation replacing people since the industrial revolution.
It is true that jobs are being generated. However they are increasingly technical and more difficult to do. I work in IT as a consultant. Most of my job is really just going into companies, figuring out why their setup isn't working as they hoped it would, and either spend some months fixing it or setting up something better. Through that I've come to realise, bitterly, just how few qualified people are employed in IT. Most people are really bad at it.
Automation, standardisation, and various services by the big companies can help ease the pain of managing IT solutions like that.
But we can't get enough people in who are good. We don't need more newbies in this field. We don't need a cheap code sweat shop in India. We need experts. We need college graduates with good grades, who can be molded into that.
And for a lot of jobs I expect it to be more and more like that. Not now, of course. Maybe not in fifty years, or even a hundred. But I believe we'll run out of jobs eventually. Farming all of the US will be a thirty man team job.
There will come a time when it is possible for a small team to own the means of production for pretty much anything. Right now cars, computer chips, resource processing and chemicals, require huge industrial setups to work properly. But I suspect when its possible to minify those setups to the point where they can fit inside a small warehouse, then we'll see a rather radical change to the economy.
Fundementally God has given us a lot of materials. Even on Earth there's vast amounts of untapped resources, and solar power alone can provide orders of magnitude more energy than we currently consume. At that point? With pervasive radical automation? With people being able of owning the means of production? That day I think either universal income, or something else will take place.
So its way in the future if ever.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostSo its way in the future if ever.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm glad you're here in the now, brother.
Just been busy. I realised that I burning a lot of energy arguing on web forums late at night so I cut that out and spent the energy elsewhere.
I look in now and then. And when I'm on a boring train ride like this one I don't mind dropping in.
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