Pro-choice distortion

[Cow Poke]

Only compared to some

Jim

In accusing me of my own distortions, you use your own distortions.

[oxmixmudd]

Trump is the source? No wonder ...

Jim

[Cow Poke]

For the record, I think that church-run crisis pregnancy centers should tell the mothers about abortions, but unlike what the abortion clinics are doing, they should tell them exactly what they are - the ending of a human life.

Ours actually does. We fully realize that, while getting the care they need from us, they may still be contemplating abortion, so we cover that. And I'll GLADLY point them to the local (former) abortion clinic which is now a Christian run pregnancy center!

[oxmixmudd]

In accusing me of my own distortions, you use your own distortions.

Feel free to point them out. I no more want to be distorting the truth than I want others to do so.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Ours actually does. We fully realize that, while getting the care they need from us, they may still be contemplating abortion, so we cover that. And I'll GLADLY point them to the local (former) abortion clinic which is now a Christian run pregnancy center!

I am glad you have not used base level tactics in your attempts to combat the idea abortion is a viable option for young mothers that have become pregnant. And I can and will pray for success in your work in this arena.


Jim

[Cow Poke]

Feel free to point them out. I no more want to be distorting the truth than I want others to do so.


Jim

How bout this little gem?

But I am quite aware of the fact people that advocate for abortion are not seething demons with a blood lust for babies - which is how they are often portrayed by the pro-life side of the debate. I agree the question of when a human person begins also weighs into the pro-choice side.

"seething demons with a blood lust for babies"?

And this...

So I point out that pro-lifers have been known to bomb, or burn down, abortion clinics. And they have also far more frequently been known to seriously abuse these young girls at a horrible personal crossroads in a massively public way.

In the first place, I don't know very many people at all who cheer on idiots who bomb or burn down abortion clinics.
Secondly, I'd like to see you provide sources for your claim that Pro-lifers "have also far more frequently been known to seriously abuse these young girls at a horrible personal crossroads in a massively public way".

And this...

And that is WORSE. And the pro-lifers could, just as you are doing, characterize ALL pro-lifers as being abortion clinic bombers or the sorts of people that curse at young ladies going into abortion clinics.

A) show me where that's actually happening on frequent basis at all
2) if it IS happening, I'll very clearly condemn it
C) Yelling at somebody (which I have already condemned) is "WORSE" than murdering an unborn child?

[carpedm9587]

Ah. you are one of the people that says "shoot first and then ask questions."

This response I do not understand.

[carpedm9587]

And when was the last time you were ever in a position to make a choice that could result in the murder of another human life?

That is your assessment, and a significant crux of the discussion. If it is not another human person, there is no issue.

The "informed consent" is not so much for the benefit of the woman but for her unborn child, and anything that could make her less likely to agree to commit murder is inherently the RIGHT decision!

Again, if there is no human person there, then there are no rights to protect. That is the position of most of those I know on the left who take this position.

[carpedm9587]

Yeah, that's their pitch deceptive pitch.

I don't see anything deceptive

[Cow Poke]

I don't see anything deceptive

In claiming that abortions are only "3%" of their business? Seriously?

[carpedm9587]

But when you pretend that the human life in jeopardy is just a clump of biomass...

I don't know of anyone who believes it is not a human life who is "pretending." You seem to be trying to read the minds of the people who express these views, rather than taking them at their word.

[carpedm9587]

I always found that name to be an oxymoron. How they planning for people to be parents when there will not be a child? Makes no sense at all.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. They offer a wide range of services, mostly focused on making having a family something that is planned. That includes parent counseling, contraception, neonatal care, and abortions. Deciding NOT to have a child is also a parenting decision. It could be because you feel you are not ready to be a parent - or because you already have children and are at your limit. All of it involves planning.

[Cow Poke]

I don't know of anyone who believes it is not a human life who is "pretending."

About three weeks ago, one of the clients at our pregnancy center used those very words - "I had to pretend it was only a clump of cells, because I knew I couldn't raise a baby and continue high school...." This was as she was watching her baby move on the ultrasound screen.

You seem to be trying to read the minds of the people who express these views, rather than taking them at their word.

Actually, being very involved with our pregnancy center, I talk to them all the time - at least weekly. It's amazing how many of them "believe the lie" that it's a "clump of cells", until they actually get to see their ultrasound.

Technology can be a beautiful thing!

[Mountain Man]

Again, if there is no human person there, then there are no rights to protect.

Very good. This is the same logic used by Nazis, the KKK, and other members of the Democrat party to justify their evil.

[carpedm9587]

You know, this discussion is showing every sign of going down the usual angry, hating, attacking, rat hole, and I have better things to do with my time than waste it in a discussion who's path and outcome are largely a foregone conclusion.

For the record, I am opposed to abortion. I think life starts at the moment an egg is fertilized and implanted, and ending that life is a moral ill.
I also think that a government forcing a medical decision on a mature adult who has not committed a crime is a moral ill.

Abortion is an issue that pits two closely held rights against one another: freedom and life. It is further complicated by the wide disagreement that exists as to when an individuated human person comes into existence. Rather than recognize that area of disagreement, and seek to find solutions that can avoid the no-win situation of abortion decisions, I find the two sides entrenched in their belief that the other side is "evil," working hard to distort the positions of the other side to make it appear even more evil, and dedicated to the war.

This war will NEVER end. At present, American laws lean strongly to freedom (i.e., in favor of pro-choice). The right will never accept that and continue to fight it. Should it ever swing more to the right (i.e., in favor of pro-life), the left will never accept that and continue to fight it.

Meanwhile, as the war continues, little effort is being given to solving the problem BEFORE it becomes a problem, and what I believe are children are dying in the hundreds of thousands. IMO, BOTH sides are responsible for this state of affairs. And I suspect BOTH sides will continue to deny they are complicit and point to the other side as "the evil ones."

When there is an honest willingness to sit down and seek solutions TOGETHER, there might be progress. Until then, as smug and comfortable as you may feel in your moral superiority, IMO, you are contributing to the death of children.

Last word to all of you.