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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...
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What churches find acceptable has often been at variance with what Christians find acceptable; notably in Nazi Germany, but only by virtue of recent and prominent history. Currently, Christians in Hong Kong are defying the churches to support the anti deportation law movement. So - pointing to what churches accept as moral won't gain any traction in a debate where Biblical teaching is pivotal. Church morality is too often informed by social mores and a quest for relevance and status in the halls of academe, and secular society.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
I don't care in the slightest what any Christian denomination believes about an issue if that belief is in clear contradiction with the actual teaching of the New Testament.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThis is merely second-guessing. You have no actual knowledge about what Philo addressed or to whom.
And if you read the gospels Jesus doesn't seem to have been particularly interested in focusing his ministry on any other people than the Jews, except for a few exceptions at the personal level. We're discussing the view of the Jews in Judea regarding homosexuality, not the Roman's views who lived there, so whatever their behavior was is irrelevant.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostMere speculation. The Roman culture would inevitably have dominated, it had the power. And this would have included the socially approved homosexual behavior of the Graeco-Roman world. The Jews may not have liked it but they were surrounded by it.
The only way you can read Paul and come away with the notion that he's ok with homosexual behavior is if you decide to completely disregard the actual sense of his words and substitute your own meaning.
Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe bottom line is that a major Christian denomination, the Episcopal Church, sees no contradiction between homosexuality and the New Testament to the extent that if marries gay couples, consecrates gay bishops and accepts high profile gay congregants such a Pete Buttigieg.
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Originally posted by Chrawnus View PostWhich doesn't weaken my point in the slightest. In fact, it strengthens it, because it's only when he's addressing the Hellenistic part of his audience that he feels the need to defend the Jewish prohibition against homosexual relationships, showing that he had no need to address the issue to his Jewish audience.
It wasn't all pervasive in the areas in which he was active.Just because homosexuality was all pervasive in the Roman empire in general doesn't mean there weren't exceptions in the form of provinces, or areas of the Roman empire where it was not nearly as common as in other parts.
Well, you're correct that it probably wasn't a priority for Him,
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt is what he claimed, you just want to argue semantics. Someone who is a member of a christian church is a self proclaimed christian whether he speaks the specific words you want to hear or not..
I could, for example, self-identify as the head of the Liberal Party. Should Liberal Party members be expected to endorse my self-identification as valid?
Or maybe, I could self-identify as an ambulance officer. Or maybe, just as a competing member of a swimming team, for all that the distance I can swim is limited to the depth of the water. Where criteria are set out, and a person does not meet those criteria, self-identification is manifestly invalid.Last edited by tabibito; 06-21-2019, 06:40 PM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBut you're holding it back cause you want it to be a special surprise?
Whenever you say "as you usually do", you're about to tell another big'un.
Is that you made a statement you can't support, so you're going to revert to typical drama queen evasion.
That's not what you claimed at all - and you can't even admit you were wrong.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postthe implications of sin?
Churches are quite happy, in the main to accept as Christian, or at least as members of the church, any number of subsets of sinner. They will even accept such people in ordained positions; albeit a more restricted range applies.
Homosexuality is volubly declared incompatible with Christianity ... not so much other sins. But ...
it is not singled out as a particularly different sin in the Bible. A congregation which accepts as members, people who openly and even unashamedly engage in other sins has no grounds for excluding people who engage in homosexual relationships. Which is to say ... the line in the sand gets drawn in the wrong place. As things stand, hypocrisy on this issue is inescapable.Last edited by tabibito; 06-21-2019, 06:26 PM.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostIn fairness, some DO make a bigger deal out of it. I've heard some fundies and Pentecostals teach along the lines that you know a society is *really* screwed up when homosexuality becomes acceptable (as if treating adultery as no big deal is fine).
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postbecause homosexuality IS just like any other sin. That is your biggest problem, you seem to think Christians single out homosexuals as some special sort of depravity and we are bigoted against them. No. We consider homosexuality on the same level as any other sexual sin, such as adultery. And like any sin, it can be forgiven. And those who practice it are no better or worse than any other sinner.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postbecause homosexuality IS just like any other sin. That is your biggest problem, you seem to think Christians single out homosexuals as some special sort of depravity and we are bigoted against them. No. We consider homosexuality on the same level as any other sexual sin, such as adultery. And like any sin, it can be forgiven. And those who practice it are no better or worse than any other sinner.
And until just now, I hadn't noticed them.
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