Transgender sprinters finish 1st, 2nd at Connecticut girls indoor track championships

[Cow Poke]

Do you ever bother to read others' posts?

I don't hang on your every word, no.

[Cow Poke]

Which has been repeatedly addressed and part of which has now moved to another allied topic. Do you not realise that happens all the time? That nobody is restricted to discussing what YOU think is the topic?

I know what the thread's about, and I like to get back ON topic. But, by all means, continue your off-topic rant.

[Electric Skeptic]

I don't hang on your every word, no.

Then perhaps you should actually read others' posts before you make false statements about them.

[Electric Skeptic]

I know what the thread's about, and I like to get back ON topic. But, by all means, continue your off-topic rant.

Don't blame me; I didn't start it. You were eager enough to jump aboard, however.

[Cow Poke]

Don't blame me; I didn't start it. You were eager enough to jump aboard, however.

Interesting you should try to start the derail about gays and homosexuals, eh? It doesn't change who they are or that they are in rebellion against God -- it simply is a different way of referring to them.

I have no need to insist that they be called one thing as opposed to the other.

[Cow Poke]

Don't blame me; I didn't start it. You were eager enough to jump aboard, however.

And you're determined NOT to come back to the fact that a MALE is competing in a FEMALE SPORT with a grossly unfair advantage.

[Electric Skeptic]

Interesting you should try to start the derail about gays and homosexuals, eh?

Interesting that you should imagine I did anything of the kind.

It doesn't change who they are or that they are in rebellion against God -- it simply is a different way of referring to them.

Don't care. Irrelevant.

I have no need to insist that they be called one thing as opposed to the other.

Don't care. Irrelevant.

What is interesting is that you just spent several posts whining about how I allegedly changed the thread subject and you want to get back to the OP...and here you are diverting it even further.

[Electric Skeptic]

And you're determined NOT to come back to the fact that a MALE is competing in a FEMALE SPORT with a grossly unfair advantage.

That's just stupid. You apparently still haven't red the post I already referred you to. Why don't you go do that before you look even more foolish by trying to impute motives to me that I don't have?

[Cow Poke]

That's just stupid. You apparently still haven't red the post I already referred you to. Why don't you go do that before you look even more foolish by trying to impute motives to me that I don't have?

What's REALLY stupid is defending the notion that it's acceptable for a biological male to compete in a physical event against biological females just because he "identifies" as a female. That's just dumb.

[Bill the Cat]

No, it doesn't.

Then define "man" and "woman" without it. I'll wait...

[Electric Skeptic]

What's REALLY stupid is defending the notion that it's acceptable for a biological male to compete in a physical event against biological females just because he "identifies" as a female. That's just dumb.

Still refuse to read my post, huh? It's making you look really dumb.

[Electric Skeptic]

Then define "man" and "woman" without it. I'll wait...

Consult a dictionary.

[Starlight]

You do agree that biological males should not be allowed in women's sports - correct?

Yes I agree with you that women's sporting events should exclude trans people, for the simple reason that it appears to be unfair and trans-people appear to have physical advantages.

While I don't share your many and various homophobic and transphobic views and while I think you are almost always anti-science in all your views on the subject.... on the narrow issue of women's sports I'll agree with you... if someone is going to the effort of having a women-only sporting event for the sake of allowing women to be successful at it in a way they wouldn't be if it were open to males too, then it doesn't make much sense to include trans people in that event because their bodies will be somewhere on the spectrum between male and female and this will likely defeat the whole point of having a separate category for women.

Some people have tried to create medical standards around hormone levels etc, with the hope that this would allow trans-women who complied with them to compete with cisgender women on a level playing field, but my understanding is that such standards have so far failed to ensure equality and that it is common for trans-women to outcompete women under these standards. Until that standard is improved to a point where it's effective at ensuring equality, the simplest work-around is to require all transgender people to compete in the men's event, and treat that as an open event.

[Starlight]

And gender rests completely on the existence of the 2 biological sexes. "man" presupposes a male archetype and "woman" presupposes a female archetype.

In plenty of human cultures in the past, and some in the present, genders were not identical to sexes.

The Bugis people of Indonesia have 5 genders. Native American tribes typically had 3 or 4.

The fact that Western culture for hundreds of years had only 2 genders that were identified with biological sex, is misleading you to assume that's the way it has to work. It doesn't. Recognizing more than 2 genders is a really common cultural pattern and found throughout history on all continents. 2-gender societies would be the historical minority.

It is necessary to distinguish gender and sex to talk about what is occurring in these multi-gender societies, where biological males and females can take on a variety of different gender roles.

Obviously, in all cultures there have been people born who didn't identity with their biological sex or were not satisfied with it in some way or who wanted to be the other sex. Likewise in all cultures there have been people born who were sexually attracted to people of the same sex as them. So there has been pressure in all cultures to develop cultural frameworks for accommodating these things. Recently, in Western culture there has been the development of the idea of same-sex marriage and of people being 'trans'. Some historical cultures have taken similar approaches to that, others slightly different. But in the vast majority of cultures there are some sort of frameworks to accommodate people like that.

Historically, the most common approach in other cultures was to deal with both in a single framework of a 3rd gender: Male, Female, & Other, and allow people to opt-out of their male or female identity and join the Other category, and then marriages were allowed between any two people not of the same gender thus allowing same sex marriages to occur between a Male and Other or Female and Other. A common pattern in Native American tribes was that a Male was the head of each household and he could marry as many Females as he wished and up to one Other who could be the same sex as him.

[Bill the Cat]

Consult a dictionary.

Exactly. You are incapable of doing so because you know I am right.