Pope says 'builders of walls' sow fear and divide

[One Bad Pig]

Yes another TWebber telling me what I do and do not think. You have no access to my level of introspection, OBP - but I doubt that fact won't stop you from coming to your conclusions... so...

My conclusions are based on what you post. When you make light of a situation, that generally means that serious introspection was rather unlikely to have occurred. It's quite possible I'm reading you wrong, but when I privately expect you to give a certain style of answer, you rarely disappoint. I will continue to use what you post when coming to any sort of conclusion regarding you.

I'm not interested in the "pig pile" phenomenon - so I am not interested in discussing the concepts of implicit bias, systemic racism, or white privilege in this forum. The exercise is pointless.

Then why do you keep bringing them up?

[One Bad Pig]

It doesn't for the most part because we don't have a lot of people with an existing negative impression of "white people."

Wow.

[Cow Poke]

It doesn't for the most part because we don't have a lot of people with an existing negative impression of "white people."...

Perhaps you'd like to expound upon this, or revise and extend, or..... admit you screwed up?

[mossrose]

Perhaps you'd like to expound upon this, or revise and extend, or..... admit you screwed up?

Good luck with any of that.

[Mountain Man]

It doesn't for the most part because we don't have a lot of people with an existing negative impression of "white people." The same is not true of "black people" - so the language reinforces a negative stereotype that is all too common. When our language reinforces a stereotype, I think it is common decency to adjust our language to avoid/minimize the problem.

Unless you want to make the claim that "being black" does not carry with it a negative stereotype for a lot of people?

And you know what - I've let myself get drawn into this racial discussion. 'Nuff. I already know how it's going to end.

You only think it reinforces a negative stereotype because it's a negative stereotype that you seem to personally harbor. Not everybody thinks the way you do. I would go so far as to say that most people in America don't think the way you do. Although it's also worth noting that studies have shown that those who have a politically liberal mindset tend to have a more negative view of blacks and see them as generally less intelligent and productive.

And please, don't cry about getting "drawn into this racial discussion". You took the thread here when pounced on seer for what you wrongly perceived as racism.

[Cow Poke]

You only think it reinforces a negative stereotype because it's a negative stereotype that you seem to personally harbor. Not everybody thinks the way you do. I would go so far as to say that most people in America don't think the way you do. Although it's also worth nothing that studies have shown that those who are politically liberal mindset tend to have a more negative view of blacks and see them as generally less intelligent and productive.

This is why liberals need to keep blacks on the plantation and "care for them".

[Mountain Man]

So then, "white privilege" isn't a thing.

Critical race theory. "Systemic racism". Micro-aggression. Vilifying white police officers even though a black kid is far more likely to get shot by another black kid than by a white police officer.

There's plenty of negative impressions of white people to go around. But we're "privileged", so we have the luxury of being able to laugh and shrug it off. At least that's what liberals tell us.

[Cow Poke]

Meanwhile...

There's Still a Path to the Wall

There's Still a Path to the Wall

[Mountain Man]

Meanwhile...

There's Still a Path to the Wall

Anybody who really thought Trump was just going to roll over and surrender hasn't been paying attention for the last couple of years.

[carpedm9587]

This sounds like "let's not actually focus on the problem - let's just come up with nicer ways to talk about it (or not)".

No - I think we should absolutely focus on the problem. That's the entire point. And the problem is not "being black."

This is exactly in line with my position on affirmative action. It focuses on the wrong problem. In order to encourage diversity in colleges, it places race-based thresholds and provides race-based incentives. The problem is not "there are not enough black people in college." The problem is "poor people and children with single-parent homes tend to have lower H.S scores or tend to drop-out/fail-out at higher rates, or lack the financial resources to go to college." Because minorities have a greater tendency to be poor and from single-family homes - it impacts them more than the average white child.

But when someone proposes a race-based solution, they use racism to fight racism - which is (excuse me) stupid - no matter how well-intentioned they might be. Not only that, but you risk excluding those who are white and are poor or from single family homes and are struggling with the same problems, and including black children who don't need the assistance (i.e., like my boys). If we tackled the poverty/single-parent home issues, tackled poorly performing schools (which are amazingly usually found in poor communities), and changed college admission rules/support to empower the poor - we would catch everyone who needs it - regardless of color, and not give support to those who don't need it. Diversity would be a natural by-product, rather than a forced goal.

The same issue arises here: call out the "blackness" of people who do violence, and you're contributing to the negative stereotype many black people regularly deal with. Call out the poverty/education/family-situation of the people who do violence, and you point to the actual source of the problem where we SHOULD be placing our attention.

[carpedm9587]

So then, "white privilege" isn't a thing.

Think about what you just said for a minute...

[carpedm9587]

OK we have three possible causes (or combinations) that we both agreed on. Poverty, poor education, single parenthood. The poverty and poor education are a wash between Blacks and Browns.

Again - you are assuming causation with data that only shows correlation.

The only significant difference is the rate of single parenthood. If not why doesn't the poverty and poor education lead to the same higher rates of violent crime with Hispanics that we see with Blacks. Yes it is difficult to prove causation, but it is not an irrational conclusion.

I cannot answer your question - because the only data you have provided (and I have found) speaks to correlation. Determining causation is a different animal.

[carpedm9587]

My conclusions are based on what you post. When you make light of a situation, that generally means that serious introspection was rather unlikely to have occurred. It's quite possible I'm reading you wrong, but when I privately expect you to give a certain style of answer, you rarely disappoint. I will continue to use what you post when coming to any sort of conclusion regarding you.

Then why do you keep bringing them up?

They came up in the context of a statement Seer made that I wanted clarification on. In hindsight, I should have done it in PM. This was not the right forum.

[carpedm9587]

Perhaps you'd like to expound upon this, or revise and extend, or..... admit you screwed up?

No - the statement says what I meant it to say. Most people don't think "white people - bad!"

The point was fairly simple: if you have a broad cultural stereotype that says "women are less intelligent than men," then any statement that can be interpreted that way will affirm and strengthen the stereotype, contributing to a systemic, negative view of women in general. Taking a moment to reframe our language to discourage (or at least not reinforce) that stereotype is a civil, responsible, kind thing to do.

[carpedm9587]

And please, don't cry about getting "drawn into this racial discussion". You took the thread here when pounced on seer for what you wrongly perceived as racism.

You're right. I've let myself get drawn into this discussion when I already know what the conclusion is. I'll leave ya'll to it. I received the answer I was looking for from Seer. Nothing left to be said that will serve any purpose.