Shutdown Over Border Security?

[JimL]

I hate to tell you this Jimmy, but Congress makes the laws and has the authority to overturn them or unfund them.

Yeah, and there is a democratic process for that Lilpix, which doesn't include hostage taking in order to undermine that process after losing.

[lilpixieofterror]

Yeah, and there is a democratic process for that Lilpix, which doesn't include hostage taking in order to undermine that process after losing.

[JimL]

Well, he appears to have caved. He is reopening the government for 3 weeks for absolutely nothing in return.

Of course he caved. Do you see the con man behind the curtain yet? Bet you're all still laughing at Nancy Pelosi, eh?

[carpedm9587]

Dunno about nothing. He should be able to give his SOTU address as scheduled, now. I suspect he wanted to use it to state his case.

Quite possibly. I would hope Pelosi will re-invite now, but the animosity in Washington (not to mention everywhere else in this country) is at such a fever pitch, it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't.

Meanwhile, if the Dems have one iota of political sense - they will repeatedly point out that Trump just accepted an offer that was made a month ago, and could have avoided the prolonged shutdown if he had done so then, instead of stringing people along and then caving.

My guess is that they will be at loggerheads in 3 weeks - and then Trump will declare a "national emergency" and use executive power to get what he cannot get from Congress. My guess is that Republicans and his base will find a way to justify why that is OK for Trump to do - but why it was very bad for Obama to do.

[JimL]

he apparently got 1.3 billion for border security.

Where did you get that idea? He got nothing and he isn't going to get anything. Remember, Trump is an idiot, and he's up against his better in Nancy Pelosi. He caved, because he finally realized Nancy gave him no other choice but to cave as his approval ratings kept tanking.

[JimL]

Quite possibly. I would hope Pelosi will re-invite now, but the animosity in Washington (not to mention everywhere else in this country) is at such a fever pitch, it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't.

Meanwhile, if the Dems have one iota of political sense - they will repeatedly point out that Trump just accepted an offer that was made a month ago, and could have avoided the prolonged shutdown if he had done so then, instead of stringing people along and then caving.

My guess is that they will be at loggerheads in 3 weeks - and then Trump will declare a "national emergency" and use executive power to get what he cannot get from Congress. My guess is that Republicans and his base will find a way to justify why that is OK for Trump to do - but why it was very bad for Obama to do.

Nah, he did as he was told, he opened the government, Nancy will let him address the country from the House. And he might try to declare a national emergency in three weeks if he doesn't get his way by then, which he won't, but declaring a national emergency would be challeged in court, and he'll lose, since it is obviously not a national emergency, else he would have already gone that route. Nancy Pelosi exposedTrump for the losing fraud that he is. Maybe he can still get Mexico to build him a wall.

[One Bad Pig]

Quite possibly. I would hope Pelosi will re-invite now, but the animosity in Washington (not to mention everywhere else in this country) is at such a fever pitch, it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't.

Meanwhile, if the Dems have one iota of political sense - they will repeatedly point out that Trump just accepted an offer that was made a month ago, and could have avoided the prolonged shutdown if he had done so then, instead of stringing people along and then caving.

On the flip side, if the Democrats had given him what he asked for a month ago, all of this would be over. There are a veritable plethora of quotes from the very same Democrats whinging that a wall is "immoral" now from a decade ago in support of such a wall.

My guess is that they will be at loggerheads in 3 weeks

Undoubtedly.

- and then Trump will declare a "national emergency" and use executive power to get what he cannot get from Congress. My guess is that Republicans and his base will find a way to justify why that is OK for Trump to do - but why it was very bad for Obama to do.

Trump would be doing it for reasons of actual national security, not as a way to pardon millions of breaking the law as a purely political ploy. My guess is that you'll attempt to find some moral equivalance there, based on extensive interaction with you.

[One Bad Pig]

Nah, he did as he was told, he opened the government, Nancy will let him address the country from the House. And he might try to declare a national emergency in three weeks if he doesn't get his way by then, which he won't, but declaring a national emergency would be challeged in court, and he'll lose, since it is obviously not a national emergency, else he would have already gone that route. Nancy Pelosi exposedTrump for the losing fraud that he is. Maybe he can still get Mexico to build him a wall.

You're a hoot, Jim. Don't go changin'.

[carpedm9587]

Nah, he did as he was told, he opened the government, Nancy will let him address the country from the House. And he might try to declare a national emergency in three weeks if he doesn't get his way by then, which he won't, but declaring a national emergency would be challeged in court, and he'll lose, since it is obviously not a national emergency, else he would have already gone that route. Nancy Pelosi exposedTrump for the losing fraud that he is. Maybe he can still get Mexico to build him a wall.

We'll see.

[JimL]

We'll see.

True.

[carpedm9587]

On the flip side, if the Democrats had given him what he asked for a month ago, all of this would be over. There are a veritable plethora of quotes from the very same Democrats whinging that a wall is "immoral" now from a decade ago in support of such a wall.

Unfortunately for Trump, the problem he is facing is that the deal he accepted, AFAIK, is exactly what was offered a month ago - which is what opens him up to the charge. The mantra will be (or should be), "if you were going to accept the offer anyway, why did you shutdown the government for a month?" The Dems, on the other hand are looking like they stuck to their guns and said "no." Pelosi did what she said she was going to do: schooled Trump on "co-equal branches of government."

And it would seem that there is finally what appears to be the beginnings of cracks in the base, because he "let them down." Of course, there are also those who think his move is "genius" because it gets him the SOTU and he can then shut down government afterwards. I'm not impressed, if that's his move.

Undoubtedly.

Trump would be doing it for reasons of actual national security, not as a way to pardon millions of breaking the law as a purely political ploy. My guess is that you'll attempt to find some moral equivalance there, based on extensive interaction with you.

I am not surprised if that this is a tactic being taken. Like I said, the right will find a way to justify. I do think Trump will have a hard time showing that there is actually a "national emergency" given that illegal immigration is below historic highs, the Dems have offered funds to bloster security and the impact of those changes has not been seen, and most of his claims about our "risk and our "safety" are not based on data - they're just based on bloviating and hyperbolic claims. But then again, Trump has swung the courts to the right, and the Supreme court will likely have his back - so who knows

I do think, if he does, it will basically sink his 2020 election, so part of me hopes he actually does it.

[Sparko]

Where did you get that idea? He got nothing and he isn't going to get anything. Remember, Trump is an idiot, and he's up against his better in Nancy Pelosi. He caved, because he finally realized Nancy gave him no other choice but to cave as his approval ratings kept tanking.

From a very liberal source.

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-shutdown-over-784623/

The stopgap bill would include $1.3 billion for border security and keep the government open until February 15th. In the meantime, the president made clear that he plans to continue working toward a deal that would include funding for a wall.

© Copyright Original Source

[JimL]

From a very liberal source.

Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-shutdown-over-784623/

The stopgap bill would include $1.3 billion for border security and keep the government open until February 15th. In the meantime, the president made clear that he plans to continue working toward a deal that would include funding for a wall.

© Copyright Original Source

That's for border security, not for Trumps wall. Funding for border security isn't an issue, Trumps wall is, and he got nothing for it.

[carpedm9587]

That's for border security, not for Trumps wall. Funding for border security isn't an issue, Trumps wall is, and he got nothing for it.

It's also interesting that the Dems offered $5.7B as a compromise. One has to wonder why Trump accepted the $1.3B number and not the $5.7B number?

It was a very odd capitulation...

[JimL]

It's also interesting that the Dems offered $5.7B as a compromise. One has to wonder why Trump accepted the $1.3B number and not the $5.7B number?

It was a very odd capitulation...

Must be the 'art of the deal."