Mueller investigation conludes that Trump is guilty!

[Mountain Man]

The GOP made the mistakes that allowed Trump to be nominated. That should never have happened. By all manner of wickedness, I am assuming you refer to LBGTQ issues and abortion. However you feel about that, most people see hatred in the eyes of conservative evangelicals as they approach those issues. The alignment with Trump and his constant chaos and hatred in every other word has only served to cement the impression that conservative evangelicals are WASP haters of all things not WASP. I know very few people outside conservative evangelical circles that think positively of that particular branding of the Christian Faith. And it's our own fault. It is not as we would suppose because we stand for what is right. Rather, we have made ourselves messengers of judgement. In their eyes we hate the poor, we hate immigrants, we hate homosexuals, and we hate women that have abortions. That is who we have presented ourselves to be at every Trump rally, at every gay wedding protest and at every abortion protest. I know that isn't what we want to do, or even what most of us are, but we have not extended grace and mercy, rather we have aligned and sided with those - like Trump - that want to hit back '10 times harder' for every offense no matter how small.

So in your world, Democrats don't get any of the blame for nominating someone as thoroughly corrupt and despicable as Hillary?

But to be frank, your denunciation of Trump and American conservatives in general is so over-the-top that it reads like a parody. You might want to tone it down a bit if you want anybody but the lunatic fringe of the left to take you seriously.

[seer]

The GOP made the mistakes that allowed Trump to be nominated. That should never have happened.

What mistake? Should they have stopped Republican voters from voting in the primary?

By all manner of wickedness, I am assuming you refer to LBGTQ issues and abortion. However you feel about that, most people see hatred in the eyes of conservative evangelicals as they approach those issues.

I really don't care what they see in our eyes, they generally hate Christ too. The issues you mention far outweigh Trump's peccadillos, and I see much more hate coming from the left.

The alignment with Trump and his constant chaos and hatred in every other word has only served to cement the impression that conservative evangelicals are WASP haters of all things not WASP. I know very few people outside conservative evangelical circles that think positively of that particular branding of the Christian Faith. And it's our own fault. It is not as we would suppose because we stand for what is right. Rather, we have made ourselves messengers of judgement. In their eyes we hate the poor, we hate immigrants, we hate homosexuals, and we hate women that have abortions. That is who we have presented ourselves to be at every Trump rally, at every gay wedding protest and at every abortion protest. I know that isn't what we want to do, or even what most of us are, but we have not extended grace and mercy, rather we have aligned and sided with those - like Trump - that want to hit back '10 times harder' for every offense no matter how small.



Jim

Everything you said here Jim is based on your opinion, and how you see things.

[JimL]

Jim it wasn't the GOP that put Trump into power, it was the Republican voters (like me),

And you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting Putins best weapon against democracy. Sad!

[seer]

And you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting Putins best weapon against democracy. Sad!

Really Jim? And you excuse all the Russian connections that Clintons had?

[JimL]

Really Jim? And you excuse all the Russian connections that Clintons had?

Hillary actually criticized the undemocratic election of Putin which is one reason why he hated her so much and helped to defeat her in her bid for President. Unfortunately, thanks to the political naivete of republicans, it worked, and he got his comrade elected instead.

[seer]

Hillary actually criticized the undemocratic election of Putin which is one reason why he hated her so much and helped to defeat her in her bid for President. Unfortunately, thanks to the political naivete of republicans, it worked, and he got his comrade elected instead.

Yet that did not stop Russian money from flowing in to their foundation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.d331fc1d369a

[JimL]

Yet that did not stop Russian money from flowing in to their foundation: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.d331fc1d369a

Russian money flowing into her charitable foundation didn't stop her from criticizing Putin and recognising him as an illigitimately elected president. That should tell you something about both her and her charitable foundation.

[seer]

Russian money flowing into her charitable foundation didn't stop her from criticizing Putin and recognising him as an illigitimately elected president. That should tell you something about both her and her charitable foundation.

Nonsense, do you think that Russian money could have flowed into their foundation without Putin's approval? So she criticized Putin with the usual wink and a nod... No one believes her...

[Mountain Man]

Nonsense, do you think that Russian money could have flowed into their foundation without Putin's approval? So she criticized Putin with the usual wink and a nod... No one believes her...

She had to keep up appearances.

Meanwhile, this happened during the Democrat primary debates:

"As president, would you hand Vladimir Putin a reset button?" Holt said.

Clinton did not rule out the possibility of a new reset strategy, brushing off its past troubles.

"Well, it would depend upon what I got for it," Clinton said...

https://freebeacon.com/politics/clin...f-first-reset/

[Sparko]

Russian money flowing into her charitable foundation didn't stop her from criticizing Putin and recognising him as an illigitimately elected president. That should tell you something about both her and her charitable foundation.

What better cover than to pretend to be enemies?

[JimL]

What better cover than to pretend to be enemies?

You guys are such a riot, you're willing to rationalize away anything if it's critical to your beliefs.

[Sparko]

You guys are such a riot, you're willing to rationalize away anything if it's critical to your beliefs.

[oxmixmudd]

So in your world, Democrats don't get any of the blame for nominating someone as thoroughly corrupt and despicable as Hillary?

But to be frank, your denunciation of Trump and American conservatives in general is so over-the-top that it reads like a parody. You might want to tone it down a bit if you want anybody but the lunatic fringe of the left to take you seriously.

I know you like to pretend Trump is 'just another corrupt politician', but he is much worse than that. There is no comparison between him and Obama, Hillary, Bush, Bush, Kasich, Dole, McCain, Clinton (bill) and the list could go on to include almost all who have served this country over the last 20 years. IF he was good for the country, IF he had a moral bone in his body, that could be good, we need some changes. But trump brings the worst of the worst in terms of his 'change' to the process, to the culture, to the rule of law. So while we needed change, we did not need it so bad as to choose Trump as the means to find it.

Jim

[Sparko]

I know you like to pretend Trump is 'just another corrupt politician', but he is much worse than that. There is no comparison between him and Obama, Hillary, Bush, Bush, Kasich, Dole, McCain, Clinton (bill) and the list could go on to include almost all who have served this country over the last 20 years. IF he was good for the country, IF he had a moral bone in his body, that could be good, we need some changes. But trump brings the worst of the worst in terms of his 'change' to the process, to the culture, to the rule of law. So while we needed change, we did not need it so bad as to choose Trump as the means to find it.

Jim

That is pretty much what he meant by being "over-the-top"

[oxmixmudd]

What mistake? Should they have stopped Republican voters from voting in the primary?

No, they should have much earlier dropped from a field of 17 look alikes and gone with one or two real contenders to Trump. Trump only won because his minority base was not split. IOW, there wasn't anything else like trump, so any GOP voter that liked him went with him. The other umpteen contenders split the remaining sane GOP voters and so Trump got the nomination. Once Trump was nominated then it launched into the much larger rock and hard place position that Hillary vs Trump presented. Trump could never have garnered a win had the competition not been so polarizing. Sanders would have sunk him. (So the Democrats do bear some of the blame here). Both parties failed America in 2016, but the GOP bears the greater burden. It is the GOP's fault that conflict defined the 2016 election. Trump should have never been on that ticket.

I really don't care what they see in our eyes, they generally hate Christ too. The issues you mention far outweigh Trump's peccadillos, and I see much more hate coming from the left.

Not if we have earned that hatred by behaving contrary to Christs words, contrary to what our faith teaches!

Paul makes a very good point. If you break the law of the land, it is not persecution to be punished. It is because you broke the law of the land. When evangelicals do not show the love, mercy, and grace of Christ and instead show judgement and condemnation, then they EARN the hatred. It is not persecution in that case, and it is nothing to be proud of. When Christians rally behind idiot science both YEC and the anti-climate stuff, then they also earn the disdain of those that are educated. When Christians rally behind and support gross immorality, they earn public disdain. There is no glory in earning disdain. Augustine made this point long long ago:

Source: Augustine, the literal meaning of Genesis

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion

© Copyright Original Source

We are not to put stumbling blocks before the Cross seer. We are not to make the Cross harder than it already is. When we directly violate the teachings of our Lord we can not claim persecution over its consequences. And we can not condemn those that rightfully found us to be hypocrites that proclaim mercy and moral purity while joining our selves to narcisists without an ounce of mercy.

Everything you said here Jim is based on your opinion, and how you see things.

One can say that about most anything anyone says. The trick is to look at what the basis of those opinions is. The facts, the realities that have formed them. And then to offer a well reasoned response.


Jim