Trump and Russia

[firstfloor]

Facts

[One Bad Pig]

Trump doesn't need any help in this regard, he self-destructs. According to Cohen, Trump during the campaign in 2016, was secretly trying to arrange a major business deal in Moscow through direct contact with the Kremlin. He was trying to do this deal while the Kremlin, according to US Intelligence, was simultaneously orchestrating a military intelligence attack by the election to hurt Hillary and to help Trump win. The deal was kept secret at the time. He and his business associates lied about it publicly. They then launched an elaborate cover-up campaign to keep it secret, including lying to Congress about it. What all this shows is a lot more communication between Trump's people and the Russians than was previously known, something Trump has long denied and a serious conflict of interest.

There was absolutely no need for you to prove that you were willing to do the same, Tassman. Thanks for playing.

[carpedm9587]

Where did you get this list - and do you SERIOUSLY believe #3? I'd expect that kind of crap from JimL or Tassman.

Umm... CP....he stood on a stage at a rally and his words were carried by the media for several days. Have you forgotten so soon?

As for the rest, these are all items that have come to light over the past two years and have been the focus of significant media attention.

[carpedm9587]

And the connections between the Clintons and Russia are numerous, and nothing you presented here is illegal as far as we know.

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...llary-clinton/

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/u...m-company.html

So first - the Clinton discussion is a blatant "whataboutism." I'm not going to get sucked in. Any campaign that gets (and solicits) support from a hostile foreign power to succeed in a U.S. Election is indeed transgressing the law, which prohibits acceptance of anything of value from a foreign power in the course of an election campaign.

As for illegal - some things on the list are - and some are not. But this broad, sweeping pattern of lying to not only the American people, but having his agents, and current/former representatives lying to Congress and the FBI is unacceptable and much of it IS illegal.

I am truly looking forward to the Democrats taking the house and giving us a chance to see what Nunes has been sitting on for the last two years. And I am truly interested in what Mueller will come forward with.

[carpedm9587]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...-moscow-plans/

From late 2015 on, Trump was asked multiple times about "connections with Russia" and repeatedly avowed no connections. All the time he was making those claims, he had a deal in the works for a building in Moscow. So, for several months, Trump lied to everyone about his connections. None of these lies were illegal, because they were not made to the FBI or Congress - they were made to the American people.

He knew nothing about Stormy...but then it turned out he did...
He knew nothing about the meeting in trump tower...but then it turned out he did...
He had no connections to Russia...then then it turned out he did...

The list goes on...

Just how many times does this man get to lie to you before you actually start questioning his ethics and his suitability for the role?

[carpedm9587]

So what? He did not know if he would become the nominee, but once he did he stopped the project. Why destroy possible business deals if you weren't sure if you would get the nomination. And what was kept hidden? He had been trying to build in Moscow since 97, that was no secret.

Why lie to everyone about it...?

.No, he reached out to both real estate people and politicians. Of course the politicians have the real power, it only makes sense to focus on them.

No Carp, it is about the double standard from the left. No one said boo about the Clinton Foundation getting large sums from foreign governments, including Russia. Is she had won you would not even be bringing it up.

I am not "the left." You are not having a conversation with "the left." You are having a conversation with me. If you can show that I have a double-standard based on what I have said about the issue - then your statement is not "whataboutism." If you cannot - then it is nothing more than an attempt to derail the points made by shifting the discussion to Clinton, the left, or anything other than the discussion at hand.

[carpedm9587]

The entire thrust of my statement, which you ignored in favor of bashing Trump. Carry on.

Your statement was:

'm also curious. What will it take for an admitted liar's words to become credible? I mean, aside from when they throw shade on Trump.

Setting aside my humorous opening, my response was:

I don't think Mr. Trump's words will ever become credible, given that he defends lying as a viable negotiation tactic.

How is that NOT a direct response to your question?

[seer]

Why lie to everyone about it...?

I'm not sure where he lied, it was no secret that they were trying to build in Moscow. Even in your own links it was not clear that Trump was even involved during the primary, even though his surrogates were. Not that it would have been wrong.

I am not "the left." You are not having a conversation with "the left." You are having a conversation with me. If you can show that I have a double-standard based on what I have said about the issue - then your statement is not "whataboutism." If you cannot - then it is nothing more than an attempt to derail the points made by shifting the discussion to Clinton, the left, or anything other than the discussion at hand.

Well you are the left to me Carp... I just wonder where you brought up this stuff about Clinton during the campaign. Or do you have selective outrage?

[Mountain Man]

From late 2015 on, Trump was asked multiple times about "connections with Russia" and repeatedly avowed no connections. All the time he was making those claims, he had a deal in the works for a building in Moscow. So, for several months, Trump lied to everyone about his connections. None of these lies were illegal, because they were not made to the FBI or Congress - they were made to the American people.

He knew nothing about Stormy...but then it turned out he did...
He knew nothing about the meeting in trump tower...but then it turned out he did...
He had no connections to Russia...then then it turned out he did...

The list goes on...

Just how many times does this man get to lie to you before you actually start questioning his ethics and his suitability for the role?

Trump's business deals in Russia have been public knowledge for decades and were fully disclosed in his 90+ page financial disclosure form that he was legally required to submit when he announced his candidacy. When he later said "no connections to Russia", it was in the context of political collusion, for which there is zero evidence.

[One Bad Pig]

Your statement was:

'm also curious. What will it take for an admitted liar's words to become credible? I mean, aside from when they throw shade on Trump.

Setting aside my humorous opening, my response was:

I don't think Mr. Trump's words will ever become credible, given that he defends lying as a viable negotiation tactic.

How is that NOT a direct response to your question?

I've given up hope of ever getting you to see what you don't want to see, carpe. I was initially responding to your bringing up Cohen's admission of lying. I also pointedly said, "aside from when they throw shade on Trump." That should be another clue that I was talking about someone other than Trump.

Again, carry on seeing what you want to see. My work here is done.

[Cow Poke]

No derail. I only wonder why you only adressed the one point that you disagreed with and ignored the others.

Because I chose not to take issue with them. Should I have asked your permission first?

[Cow Poke]

Do you have fever with these little fits?

[Cow Poke]

Umm... CP....he stood on a stage at a rally and his words were carried by the media for several days. Have you forgotten so soon?

So, you actually believe he was calling for the Russians to do hacking - in public - and not just being his usual jackass smart aleck self? I'm going to have to put you in the corner with JimL on this one.

[rogue06]

Umm... CP....he stood on a stage at a rally and his words were carried by the media for several days. Have you forgotten so soon?

Do you honestly think that if he was serious that he would have made such a request on a stage in front of a large audience? With cameras rolling? Doesn't it seem far more likely that he was, for example, tweaking the MSM, who appeared to be less than interested in investigating this themselves?

Next time listen to the warning and avoid the brown acid.

[Cow Poke]

Do you honestly think that if he was serious that he would have made such a request on a stage in front of a large audience? With cameras rolling? Doesn't it seem far more likely that he was, for example, tweaking the MSM, who appeared to be less than interested in investigating this themselves?

Next time listen to the warning and avoid the brown acid.

This actually surprises me coming from Carpe --- this is the kind of wacko I expect from JimL and Tassman.