Anonymous Op-Ed from the NYT

[Mountain Man]

Do you even have any proof he actually holds to the position you don't like? I've heard noises from elsewhere that the charge that he supports gay conversion therapy is false, though I haven't looked into it.

I think Pence is an honorable guy who would be chewed up and spit out by the swamp in no time flat. I don't think there's any other Republican in Washington who could stand up to the constant attacks that Trump has been subjected to and still go to work everyday and get things done. Trump may not be the president we want, but I think he's the president we need right now. Give Trump another six-years to finish draining the swamp, and then Washington might once again be a town where Pence could be an effective Commander in Chief.

[rogue06]

I think Pence is an honorable guy who would be chewed up and spit out by the swamp in no time flat. I don't think there's any other Republican in Washington who could stand up to the constant attacks that Trump has been subjected to and still go to work everyday and get things done. Trump may not be the president we want, but I think he's the president we need right now. Give Trump another six-years to finish draining the swamp, and then Washington might once again be a town where Pence could be an effective Commander in Chief.

I think the full on assault mode we are seeing against Trump marks the new normal from now on for any Republican president in the future.

[One Bad Pig]

I keep seeing the idea pushed that the "senior official" is Pence, but that's just TDS talking. It is laughably far from Pence's character to pull such a stunt.

It's also, as others have noted, a really stupid thing to write if the writer wants to keep Trump in the dark about how he's being managed so he can keep managing him. It reads like Dem wishful thinking at its finest.

[Sparko]

I keep seeing the idea pushed that the "senior official" is Pence, but that's just TDS talking. It is laughably far from Pence's character to pull such a stunt.

It's also, as others have noted, a really stupid thing to write if the writer wants to keep Trump in the dark about how he's being managed so he can keep managing him. It reads like Dem wishful thinking at its finest.

More like trolling. "let's make Trump paranoid and start a firing spree! woohoo!"

[rogue06]

I keep seeing the idea pushed that the "senior official" is Pence, but that's just TDS talking. It is laughably far from Pence's character to pull such a stunt.

It's also, as others have noted, a really stupid thing to write if the writer wants to keep Trump in the dark about how he's being managed so he can keep managing him. It reads like Dem wishful thinking at its finest.

I can't help but think that driving a wedge between Pence and Trump using suspicions and distrust wasn't part of the purpose all along.

[carpedm9587]

This is just as bad as the cowardly "anonymous" New York Times piece.

"That op-ed shouldn't have been published because the president is a maniac who is going to be even more paranoid now!"

Whatever, carpe.

But good job letting the liberal media lead you around by the nose. I can't wait until the next cowardly liberal op-ed compels you to reassess your uninformed opinion yet again. I wonder what "Biased Media Fact Check" has to say about this? You better check it out so they can tell you what to think.

At least you're consistent, MM.

[carpedm9587]

The NYT has been caught in lies before. They have no credibility with me.

I would like to see evidence of one "lie" the NYT has been caught promoting.

Question: If people who are hired to work for POTUS are secretly undermining POTUS' leadership, isn't that tantamount to treason?

No. Treason is about "against country," not "minimizing the harm Trump does." These people are apparently acting out of love of country, not to betray it.

Refusing to obey in open would be one thing and they could do so and leave, but to secretly do it behind his back? Such a person is completely untrustworthy and of low character. He would be worse than Trump ever could be. Why believe anything such a person says?

Throughout history, there have been people who have resisted despots and unstable leaders and political systems from "inside." If you agree with them, they are heroes. If you disagree, they are traitors. I'm sure the Nazis saw the internal resistance (and they existed) as "traitors." Most of the rest of us saw them as heroes.

It all depends on what side you're on.

Oxmix was talking in another thread about "undermining the rule of law" in regards to Trump and Sessions. This is worse. It is basically an undercover coup. Whether you like Trump or not, he is the President.

A president that is a danger to our country should be resisted. We're not talking about GOP vs. DEM policies here. As the article cited, they have been working to move forward GOP agenda items. The reference was to the unstable and destructive aspects of his personality. Trump is a loose cannon. He needs minders. I cannot recall such an inappropriate choice for president in my lifetime - not based on policies - but based on his person.

That being said - I do think the "resistance" needs to come forward into the light, and put their evidence on the table. So far, they have been doing so through back channels. I'm increasingly convinced that is not the constitutionally strongest approach.

[carpedm9587]

I saw this and had to share:

Source: Babylon Bee

The Babylon Bee today is taking the rare step of publishing an anonymous Op-Ed essay. We have done so at the request of the author, a high-level U.S. President whose identity is known to us and whose job would be jeopardized by its disclosure. We believe publishing this essay anonymously is the only way to deliver an important perspective to our readers.

© Copyright Original Source

Source

It would be funny if it were not so close to the mark for this president...

[carpedm9587]

I do not believe Pence would be worse than Trump, and he is very likely to be a good bit better. As I see it, our best move is to impeach trump and wait out Pence. But then again I am a mostly conservative voter. Trump is the only republican candidate I could not have been convinced to vote for in 2016.

Jim

Pence is an ideologue, but he does not suffer from Trump's personality flaws. He would do less damage, but my real concern is that he has a real chance to win in 2020. With more aging liberal justices than conservative ones, we cannot afford to have the court skew by yet another vote to the right. We need someone in 2020 that will help restore balance to the court. Trump and Pence are simply going to keep sending it further and further to the right.

[carpedm9587]

OK, so IF there's really an "inside" "resistance", and they're supposedly working to salvage the government from Trump's destructive forces, why reveal themselves NOW???? Why not continue to work to do what they're claiming to do?

It reminds me of Maxwell Smart's "... would you believe, at THIS VERY MOMENT, an entire company of US Marines is just outside that door ready to come bursting in here......"

Who knows. Perhaps the point is the timing with respect to the election cycle. I got the impression, from the op-ed, that they have little confidence that the Republicans in congress are going to grow a spine and hold Trump accountable. So this might help the Dems increase the coming wave.

Either way - I have come to think it was a bad call...

[carpedm9587]

And, no doubt, you trust the NYT.....

source

Trust - but verify. As with all such things, I read, and I check/verify. The more often I find corroboration, the more I trust. If I start to find errors that are not acknowledged or corrected, my trust drops. So my trust in the NYT, WP, WSJ, Boston Globe, and several others is fairly high. They also rank fairly well in the bias checking sites.

For exactly the opposite reason (lots of errors/misleading statements, little/no acknowlegdment/correction, poor bias ratings) my confidence in Mother Jones, Brietbart, Jezebel, and several others is very low. I don't even waste my time anymore. CNN and Fox News sit right in the middle.

I have seen the NYT publish bad things. I have also seen them acknowledge them as soon as they were called out and fire/suspend/discipline those who had "gone rogue." No media outlet will be perfect. How they respond when they slip, or someone internally goes rogue, is a significant measure of their quality.

[carpedm9587]

And, speaking of the honorable and trustworthy NYT....

NYT 'Bombshell' on Kavanaugh and Roe Is Actually a Dud

So one media outlet said "big news" and another one said "not big news" and I'm supposed to suddenly ditch the NYT?


Media outlets are subject to hyperbole - it gets eyeballs. Especially when it is an opinion about the impact of a new "bombshell."

[carpedm9587]

I think Pence is an honorable guy who would be chewed up and spit out by the swamp in no time flat. I don't think there's any other Republican in Washington who could stand up to the constant attacks that Trump has been subjected to and still go to work everyday and get things done. Trump may not be the president we want, but I think he's the president we need right now. Give Trump another six-years to finish draining the swamp, and then Washington might once again be a town where Pence could be an effective Commander in Chief.

[carpedm9587]

I think the full on assault mode we are seeing against Trump marks the new normal from now on for any Republican president in the future.

We'll see. I doubt it - unless we elect another inept, amoral, uncivil, childish, melagomaniac.

[Starlight]

I keep seeing the idea pushed that the "senior official" is Pence, but that's just TDS talking.

The view that Pence wrote it is based primarily on the use of the fairly rare word "lodestar" in the piece, a Pence favorite. And secondarily on a few other factors, e.g. the deep concern that Trump is "amoral", the obvious style of the piece as politician-written, Pence's obvious personal gain if Trump was removed from office etc. It has nothing whatsoever to do with TDS.

I have personally been swayed by the arguments put forth by Lawrence O'Donnell and others that the author of the piece is the Director of National Intelligence, Republican ex-congressman ex-senator, Dan Coats. His trigger for writing the piece was the recent death and funeral of his close friend, John McCain, whom he praises at the end of the op-ed. He is one of the few career politicians among Trump's senior advisers, has the foreign-policy focus that that the op-ed piece evidences, has strayed toward mocking Trump in public in the past, is old enough (75) to be sure he'll not want to run for office again and so won't be adversely affected by people finding out he wrote this piece, and his denial of writing the piece was neither accompanied by any critique of the NYT nor praise of Trump unlike other senior figures.