White South Africans Face Genocide?

[Starlight]

That killings are taking place is undeniable.

While crime in South Africa is generally quite high, the rate at which farmers are being murdered has been dropping for the last 20 years and is now at a 20 year low.

So yes, it is totally a fake and bigoted story to claim that "white farmers" are now being "killed off" in South Africa. The opposite is happening: They are safer now from being murdered than they have been at any time in the last 20 years.

[Tassman]

It may be difficult for you to grasp but there is something between "white genocide" and it's a "fake and bigoted story" made up by "white supremacists." That killings are taking place is undeniable. That it is full on genocide is ridiculous.

"Genocide" was the word used in the OP, not my word. Regardless, it is incorrect. "Murders of farmers in South Africa at 20-year low, research shows".

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...research-showshttps://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...armer-killings

That said, land reform in South Africa is badly needed. Over 70% of agricultural land is in the hands of white farmers, despite white people making up just 8% of the population.

[rogue06]

While crime in South Africa is generally quite high, the rate at which farmers are being murdered has been dropping for the last 20 years and is now at a 20 year low.

According to the ones who have been chasing the farmers off their land offering up to 10% of what it is worth or as is now preferred zero compensation.

Yup, everything is peachy keen here. There's nothing to concern yourself with. And if you do you're obviously nothing more than a white supremacist.



This is what happens when you rip the mask off socialism so I can understand your desire to help suppress any facts to the contrary.

[Starlight]

According to the ones who have been chasing the farmers off their land offering up to 10% of what it is worth or as is now preferred zero compensation.

You've got your facts wrong, again.

Previously the government's policy was that when any white farmer wanted to sell their land, the government would pay them market prices to buy it. This process was agreed by almost everyone to be too slow (farmers rarely sold their land) and too expensive.

Now, with the new constitution change, the government can speed things up, and doesn't have to pay market prices for land that was stolen in the first place. This month the government is taking the land from a couple of farmers at 10% of estimated market value. Now, you could of course argue the details, and say that their choice of those particular two farmers was unfair because of X, Y, or Z, but your grasp of their overall facts seems to be so faulty I suggest you give up while you're behind.

There's nothing to concern yourself with. And if you do you're obviously nothing more than a white supremacist.

You're more than a white supremacist. As I have said in the past, and which you misquote in your signature, you're the most deliberately deceptive poster on TWeb.

This is what happens when you rip the mask off socialism so I can understand your desire to help suppress any facts to the contrary.

[Sparko]

People who have been scratching their heads at how such a fake and bigoted story made it into the mainstream have found the story originated on white supremacist websites a few years back, and gradually percolated its way into right-wing blogs and through the various disreputable right-wing "news" websites before finally hitting mainstream right-wing propaganda outlets like Faux News and Trump.

SA is a very dangerous place, yes. I would not want to live there. I wouldn't want to live in the US either for a similar reason.

What data we have shows that SA is much more dangerous for blacks than it is whites by about an order of magnitude. But I'm amused that you prefer to think otherwise.


The white supremacists in the US love this fake story, so it's a useful divining rod to tell us who is in that group and who isn't. However here on TWeb it's not telling me anything I didn't already know about who's in that group.

You are as bad as the holocaust deniers.

From an Australian news source (since you don't trust the White supremacist MSM in the USA) --

--
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...3dbf293b8b67ce

[Sparko]

While crime in South Africa is generally quite high, the rate at which farmers are being murdered has been dropping for the last 20 years and is now at a 20 year low.

yeah they are down to only 50 or so a year. I guess they are running out of white farmers, huh? Those who haven't been murdered are fleeing to other countries like New Zealand and Australia.

So yes, it is totally a fake and bigoted story to claim that "white farmers" are now being "killed off" in South Africa. The opposite is happening: They are safer now from being murdered than they have been at any time in the last 20 years.

[Tassman]

You are as bad as the holocaust deniers.

From an Australian news source (since you don't trust the White supremacist MSM in the USA) --

--
https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...3dbf293b8b67ce

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ight-influence

Interesting that it's been taken up by racist Trump and his racist support base. No surprise there!

[Leonhard]

Ironic, wasn't the US founded on people rebelling against the British rule's rightful claim to the land? I seem to recall a war with a few casualties, and it being considered noble and even (quite heretically) a holy war by some Christians.

Why shouldn't we consider what these Africans are doing noble and holy in the same light, if, indeed, they're taking back land that was originally stolen from them by the apartheid regime?

[Leonhard]

Addendum, I'd like to point out that I don't approve of the murder of people in any way shape or form. I have no knowledge of how widespread this phenomenon is, or whether taking back lands that has belonged to these families for a generation is good or bad. A mussing just hit me as I read this thread.

[Sparko]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ight-influence

Interesting that it's been taken up by racist Trump and his racist support base. No surprise there!

Amazing. We have an actual example of Liberal Holocaust Denial Syndrome in Tassy and Starlight.

[Sparko]

Ironic, wasn't the US founded on people rebelling against the British rule's rightful claim to the land? I seem to recall a war with a few casualties, and it being considered noble and even (quite heretically) a holy war by some Christians.

Why shouldn't we consider what these Africans are doing noble and holy in the same light, if, indeed, they're taking back land that was originally stolen from them by the apartheid regime?

We didn't go around murdering farmers. We were the farmers. We just asked for our own country. The British sent in the troops to kill us and we defended ourselves. And we didn't go around confiscating farms.

[Starlight]

Ironic, wasn't the US founded on people rebelling against the British rule's rightful claim to the land? I seem to recall a war with a few casualties, and it being considered noble and even (quite heretically) a holy war by some Christians.

Why shouldn't we consider what these Africans are doing noble and holy in the same light, if, indeed, they're taking back land that was originally stolen from them by the apartheid regime?

Well the US was also founded on killing the natives and taking their land. The idea of giving the natives back their land isn't very popular in the US today.

[Leonhard]

Amazing. We have an actual example of Liberal Holocaust Denial Syndrome in Tassy and Starlight.

I do think the comparison to the Holocaust is a bit unfair, and disrespectful of the Jews, at least from just a cursory viewing of it.

[Leonhard]

We didn't go around murdering farmers. We were the farmers. We just asked for our own country. The British sent in the troops to kill us and we defended ourselves. And we didn't go around confiscating farms.

Yet it was a war of rebellion. The crown of England hadn't given the Americans their land. Whether they ever would have is a question we'll never see answered now.

They were sending troops because of rebellions that were taking place. This led to further uprising and a lot of blood shedding. The US begins in war and rebellion against legitimate authority like that. So it just seems ironic to me that you're denigrating the people in that country, for taking back land which, if I understand the situation correct (and I admit I might not), was originally taken from them.

And the US even rebelled against itself when the South rebelled against the North.

I'd imagine at least you guys would have some sympathy. Raphael's story I do remember. But then again I'm just mulling this. Nothing quite sits easy with this for me. I don't like murders. And I can't condone the killing of farmers, and yet I have a very hard time feeling sorry for the farmers who lost their land when it was (again, as I understand it - an understanding I don't entirely trust) ill gotten gains.

[Sparko]

I do think the comparison to the Holocaust is a bit unfair, and disrespectful of the Jews, at least from just a cursory viewing of it.

If I could post some of the pictures I saw online of the murders in SA, you might change your mind. Do a google search.