Collusion update: "no factual evidence"

[Mountain Man]

To say there is no evidence of a conspiracy is to be dishonest or ignorant.

And with you're implying that Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr and Vice Chairman Mark Warner are either dishonest or ignorant when they say there is no evidence.

Granted, I don't think either of them are the most trustworthy of characters, but I'm inclined to take their word on the matter over yours, especially since they can both be considered hostile witnesses -- one is a "never-Trump" Republican and the other is a Democrat, so they have no reason to lie about this. And considering they've been intensely investigating this matter for some time, your charge of "ignorant" isn't going to stick, either.

[Bill the Cat]

1) ..., but as far as I'm concerned, of course it is conspiracy,...

And you're objective... how?

[Bill the Cat]

To say there is no evidence of a conspiracy is to be dishonest or ignorant. Donald Trump publicly asking the Russians to try to find the missing Hillary emails and them responding by hacking into the DNC email server is evidence of a conspiracy.

It was a joke, Jim. Everyone who isn't ridiculously biased knows that. And even with that, her emails were on her server, not the DNC's. So, were they skilled hackers but too stupid to know what server they were hacking?

Trump Jr. Meeting with the Russian Lawyer/Spy to get dirt on Hillary is evidence of a conspiracy.

No it isn't. It's politics.

Trump Jr. seeking a back-channel to the Kremlin is evidence of a conspiracy.

Manafort's role in the campaign and his deep connections to Russia are extremely suspicious.

His role in the campaign was minimal. And his dealings with Russia were not illegal nor were they integral to Trump.

Donald Trump's deference to Putin is evidence He is compromised in some way.

Deference?

To date there have been indictments against:

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-been-charged-in-russia-investigation-mueller-trump-2017-12

4 Americans, 1 directly affiliated with the campaign, 13 Russian nationals, 12 Russian intelligence operatives, 3 Russian companies and 2 others

© Copyright Original Source

What were the indictments exactly? And where are the "connections" to the election outside of fanciful speculations?

Trump's current attack on those investigating the issue through the removal of security clearances also stands out as an unprecedented abuse of presidential power for personal revenge and gain. It is the sort of things dictators do when they feel threatened.

Ah... the "have you stopped beating your wife" fallacy... It's a witch hunt that has gone on far too long and has found precisely nothing of relevance, and the BS indictments have nothing to do with collusion.

But: to say there is insufficient evidence to bring formal charges against Donald Trump himself would be an accurate statement.

Then it needs to end. It's been a colossal waste of money.

[JimL]

(Associated Press) Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr said there is “no factual evidence today that we’ve received” on collusion or conspiracy between Russia and President Donald Trump’s campaign.

https://apnews.com/a968f26df3a64667afe108107daebc4d

1) "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you are able to find the 30,000 missing e-mails." Hours later the Russian intel hacked Clinton and the DNC.

2) "If it's what you say it is, I love it." Trump junior after being told by Russian operatives they had dirt on Clinton that they would exchange for getting rid of the magnisky act, and then shortly thereafter met with the Russian operatives in Trump Tower to seal the deal.

That in itself is collusion with a foriegn adversary! It may not rise to an act of conspiracy, so some say, but as far as I'm concerned, of course it is conspiracy, a conspiracy with Russia in order to help Trump become President. And it seems to have worked. Besides that, Trump has been laundering money for the Russian Mafia, which is nothing other than the Russian government, for decades now and acts as if he knows nothing about it. You can bet your bottom dollar that there is a whole lot more than the alleged collusion and obstruction of justice that Trump is desperately in fear of being exposed.

[oxmixmudd]

To a conspiracy nut, the lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.

"That just proves a cover-up!"

That sort of dismissal only feeds the fire of polarization that need instead to be put out. The issues with Trump are not the fantasies of some mysterious "Q" like Trump allies himself with, but rather a simple reality.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

If we ignore the total and complete lack of evidence of any kind of conspiracy, it all makes sense.

To say there is no evidence of a conspiracy is to be dishonest or ignorant. Donald Trump publicly asking the Russians to try to find the missing Hillary emails and them responding by hacking into the DNC email server is evidence of a conspiracy. Trump Jr. Meeting with the Russian Lawyer/Spy to get dirt on Hillary is evidence of a conspiracy. Trump Jr. seeking a back-channel to the Kremlin is evidence of a conspiracy. Manafort's role in the campaign and his deep connections to Russia are extremely suspicious. Donald Trump's deference to Putin is evidence He is compromised in some way. To date there have been indictments against:

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com/who-has-been-charged-in-russia-investigation-mueller-trump-2017-12

4 Americans, 1 directly affiliated with the campaign, 13 Russian nationals, 12 Russian intelligence operatives, 3 Russian companies and 2 others

© Copyright Original Source

Trump's current attack on those investigating the issue through the removal of security clearances also stands out as an unprecedented abuse of presidential power for personal revenge and gain. It is the sort of things dictators do when they feel threatened.

But: to say there is insufficient evidence to bring formal charges against Donald Trump himself would be an accurate statement.

Jim

[Mountain Man]

And before our resident liberals try to dismiss Burr's claims because he's a Republican, Democrat Senator Mark Warner said essentially the same thing:

"This is one where there is no Democratic or Republican answer since clearly the goal of our adversaries was not to favor one party over the other. It was to wreak havoc and split divisions."

https://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...vor-any-party/

[Mountain Man]

If we ignore the total and complete lack of evidence of any kind of conspiracy, it all makes sense.

To a conspiracy nut, the lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.

"That just proves a cover-up!"

[lilpixieofterror]

And that would explain Trump's terror surrounding the investigation, his deference to putin, and his current attack on the security clearances of officials that voiced support for the investigation and criticism of himself.

Jim

If we ignore the total and complete lack of evidence of any kind of conspiracy, it all makes sense.

[oxmixmudd]

https://apnews.com/a968f26df3a64667afe108107daebc4d

And that would explain Trump's terror surrounding the investigation, his deference to putin, and his current attack on the security clearances of officials that voiced support for the investigation and criticism of himself.

Jim

[rogue06]

https://apnews.com/a968f26df3a64667afe108107daebc4d

So... nothing new.

[Mountain Man]

https://apnews.com/a968f26df3a64667afe108107daebc4d