Collusion update: "no factual evidence"

[Mountain Man]

I didn't say it WAS you MM. I just said it was people LIKE you.

That doesn't sound anything like me.

[oxmixmudd]

What? I never claimed that. In fact, I've never even heard that theory. What did happen is that someone took a picture hours before Trump's inauguration and then misleadingly compared it to Obama's at its peak.

I didn't say it WAS you MM. I just said it was people LIKE you. And I'll stand by that. And I got emails and links from friends at the time that were trump supporters that bought into it.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

It also could have been aliens. Or maybe someone kidnapped the real Lanny Davis and replaced him with a surgically altered lookalike.

There is nothing improbable or unlikely about the list I gave. Or did you not notice that Russian spies went to the extraordinary length of releasing a nerve agent in a public space in Britain in an attempt to kill a target? Or that they have been known to spike the drinks of opponents with Polonium? The possibility of retribution is real, not imagined. All that is needed is to have a big enough target on your back and to have made the right people angry. Likewise the retributions from various mob bosses and money launderers. Anyone that stands to lose from Cohen outing Trump that is rich enough or powerful enough could have been motivated to try to put a stop to it. Whether it happened - who knows? I'm not proposing that it necessarily took place. Im just saying it may well be that Cohen was not lying but has been motivated to have a 'change of heart' as it where.

Your proposals are, OTOH, pure fantasy


Jim

[rogue06]

There are other possibilities. None of which could be proven at this stage of the game. It is possible somebody got to Cohen and made him realize 'flipping' (as Trump put it) on Trump would not be in his best interests. This is all essentially sleeze on sleeze, corruption on corruption, with all the actors (Putin and the Russian gov't, Trump, Cohen, Manafort, etc etc) having in many cases lots of power and resources with which to make someone 'see the light' and back off. So in my mind anything is possible, from a lying Cohen who mislead his lawyer to Putin acting as Trump's enforcer. When one is dealing with this level of corruption, and players this high on the world stage, literally almost anything is possible. I have been wondering though why Cohen thought he could flip on Trump and not face some sort of consequence. Maybe he's realized he can't


Jim

It also could have been aliens. Or maybe someone kidnapped the real Lanny Davis and replaced him with a surgically altered lookalike.

[Mountain Man]

And it was people like you that claimed the park service switched out pictures from another event during the inauguration.

What? I never claimed that. In fact, I've never even heard that theory. What did happen is that someone took a picture hours before Trump's inauguration and then misleadingly compared it to Obama's at its peak.

[Mountain Man]

The Trump campaign tried to get dirt on Hillary from a Russian operative.

Maybe. So what? That's not a crime. Otherwise Hillary would be on the hook for colluding with the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on Paul Manafort.

Trump JR tried to set up a secretive back channel to Putin.

trump_wrong.jpg

Trump asked for and received help from Russian hackers in the Hillary email scandal.

trump_wrong.jpg

...the Russians responded to the request by hacking machines that might have information that could help the Trump campaign...

trump_wrong.jpg

The hacking attempts predated Trump's "request".

No one running for office should ever in any way be allowed to actively enlist the help of a foreign government in their campaign.

Did I mention that Hillary actively colluded with the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on Paul Manafort?

Also, how do you account for the fact that the Russian lawyer who met with Junior also had two meetings with Fusion GPS who the Hillary campaign had hired to fabricate a salacious "dossier" about Donald Trump? More curious is that this pair of meetings took place before and after she met with Junior. Hmmm!

Want to know more? How about this:

Source: Obama DOJ let Russian lawyer into US before she met with Trump team

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...met-with-trump

© Copyright Original Source

all colluding with Russia?

Meanwhile, there is not a shred of evidence that Trump sought or received help from the Russian government for his presidential campaign. The two leading members of the Senate Intelligence Committee have both stated this publicly.

[oxmixmudd]

Wrong. I reject the accusations specifically because there is no evidence.

You see, unlike a conspiracy nut like yourself, I don't accept idle speculation and innuendo as evidence.

Careful lest your own hypocrisy take you down. There is no greater conspiracy 'nut' in power than your venerated Donald Trump himself. With his constant paranoia about the 'deep state' and his welcoming and even acting on the QAnon idiocy.

And it was people like you that claimed the park service switched out pictures from another event during the inauguration.

And if you can't call your own paranoia about the MSM a 'conspiracy theory', then I'm not sure what is.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

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You are nothing if not predictable. But also very naive. The Trump campaign tried to get dirt on Hillary from a Russian operative. Trump admitted that. Trump JR tried to set up a secretive back channel to Putin. Trump asked for and received help from Russian hackers in the Hillary email scandal. (that Hillary's email server had been taken down at that point is irrelevant - the Russians responded to the request by hacking machines that might have information that could help the Trump campaign)

You can pretend there is nothing substantial here all day long MM, but it is in fact simply a delusion on your part. The only question is how deep did it go, and to what extent where the activities themselves actually illegal vs. simply grossly both immoral and unfitting a candidate for president of the United States. These activities alone should have disqualified his candidacy. From the day he called out to Russia his name should have been wiped off the voting roster in every state. And in my mind these should themselves be impeachable offenses. No one running for office should ever in any way be allowed to actively enlist the help of a foreign government in their campaign. It puts them in an impossibly compromised position from day one.

Jim

[JimL]

I think, rather, that he unwittingly spoke the truth.

That you are a hypocrite, yes, I did speak the truth, obviously.

[Mountain Man]

He just reversed the sense of his comment. I happens ... to all of us. And rarely does an opponent let it pass unnoticed either. Your turn has come, and will come again MM.

I think, rather, that he unwittingly spoke the truth.

[Mountain Man]

...you will deny any and all accusations against [the honorable President Donald J. Trump] no matter what the evidence actually is.

Wrong. I reject the accusations specifically because there is no evidence.

You see, unlike a conspiracy nut like yourself, I don't accept idle speculation and innuendo as evidence.

[oxmixmudd]

Here's what I said: "I also wonder if [oximxmuddle] consistently applies his own standards."

Here's Jimmy's response:


We'll let Jimmy chew on that for a bit.

He just reversed the sense of his comment. I happens ... to all of us. And rarely does an opponent let it pass unnoticed either. Your turn has come, and will come again MM.

[Mountain Man]

Here's what I said: "I also wonder if [oximxmuddle] consistently applies his own standards."

Here's Jimmy's response:

I don't know, but I don't think that he would. But you obviously would, hypocrite.

We'll let Jimmy chew on that for a bit.

[oxmixmudd]

Only in the mind of delusional liberals like you, Jimmy.

One can easily make the case you are the delusional one MM. You have taken the position that until ACTION is taken against this president you will deny any and all accusations against him no matter what the evidence actually is. And given we have an yellow GOP in the congress that will not stand on principles pretty much no matter what Trump does given their base blindly supports Trump in a similar fashion to your own, it is unlikely any significant action will be taken until and unless either the balance of power shifts back to the democratic side of things, OR mueller find undeniable evidence of crimes that simply can't be denied by any person except Trump himself.

I would take this opportunity to point something else out that is truly sad. There are a large percentage of people just like myself that are in fact mostly conservative historically (all my life and every election save 1) Republican voters but who will in fact take the risk of a period of liberal control to try to restore some sense of decency to the Presidency. And people like yourself and the folks attending the Trump rallies and acting like idiots, constantly siding with Trump no matter what he does, only serve to strengthen my own conviction that such a risk is absolutely necessary. I will be voting democratically until all vestiges of the Trumpian 'side with the dictators' and 'live at the bottom of the moral barrel' approach to the GOP are eliminated. And many more like me will also do the same. Only 30% of the country is with you, with Trump. If the rest of the non-Trumpian Republicans take the same risk, this nightmare can be over quickly. Then and only then can I return to the conservative side in the legitimate battle of liberal vs conservative US politics. Donald Trump and what he has done to this country, this countries politics and people, and this countries relationship with our Allies and the world by encourage and fostering continuously the worst of the worst needs to become a sad part of our country's history.


Jim

[JimL]

I also wonder if he consistently applies his own standards. Would he concede that Hillary and Obama are probably guilty but that both are "rich enough and powerful enough to make the evidence hard to find"?

I don't know, but I don't think that he would. But you obviously would, hypocrite.