Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Mike Pence on how presidents should behave
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI never said I was upset and I generally feel you misunderstood the purpose of what I wrote at least to some extent. I actually said I supported his right to do this. What I pointed to was rather that by having such a policy you allow for something very unlikely to happen to have rather big consequences in cases where nothing would have happened. It is all very basically about the question whether I can meet other women without the idea of having sex with them or the idea that the will accuse me falsely should set certain conditions around that meeting. I have had quite many talks with women that would have been different if I followed Pence's policy. So, all I did was to say there is a price to pay and that he is free to do so if he thinks it is worth it.
My view is not misguided. That is a part of the religious base for it. However some may veil for other reasons. I support their right to do so in all cases. Once again I only point to the signals it can send if used for specific purposes.
And the precondition for the need to "make certain" is that you find it possible that someone would accuse you falsely or that you find it possible that something "unbecoming" happens. The first part is based on a lack of trust. The fact that this trust is not present set other conditions for whatever talk you may have. So there is a price to pay. The worry that something "unbecoming" happens also sets the scene for the relation between man and women in which the very idea that you could have sex with them needs to put certian conditions around everything else you can do with them. I think that price is way too high. If he is willing to pay it fine by me but I have found great values and insights and had many trustful conversations that I would have missed if a had done like Pence.
And having other people present when he is with a woman who is not his wife is also reassuring to the other woman. She is assured that he will not attempt anything with other people present, so it is assurance both ways: That the woman cannot accuse him of anything and that he cannot attempt anything. win/win.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostSo he is "tolerating" him by nodding everytime he says even the worst things on tv. And he is not only "tolerating" him, he is also working for him as a part of the administration. No one forced him to do that. He could have simply said no. Judging by what he read, he does not think Trump is fit, so why work for him? If he stod by his principles that is what he would have done. That is not being "a disloyal son-of-a-biscuit". It is being true to your principles. He was not and became a part of one of the worst administrations in American history. He is certainly not a person I would ask for moral guidance. Just ask all those who suffer the consequence of the policy of this administration.
Once again "his standards" were not a standard for himself. Not even a standard for himself if he became the president. It was a standard for the American president. The American president is currently Donald Trump who by no means live up to the standard and whom Pence works for every day. So he already broke with the principles before he might get the chance to become the president himself.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThe role model Pence wrote about was someone who was faithful to his wife and could serve as a role model of all we have been and can be.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostNow you are trying to change that into something that only relates to what is work related. That was not Pence's point.
2) Nobody said it "only relates to what is work related".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHas Trump had any affairs or done any womanizing since being in office?
I don't see how he would be a role model if he had not. Having married three times and had sex with porn stars while married is not a role model.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostIt would not surorise me if he had, but I do not know.
I don't see how he would be a role model if he had not. Having married three times and had sex with porn stars while married is not a role model.
There are those, however, so filled with hate and judgment that they would never consider that people can change. You kinda sound like that, Charles.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWe know that since he is a part of the Trump administration he is not living up to that.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWe believe in redemption. Second chances. I work with people all the time who had horrible pasts, but have miraculously changed.
There are those, however, so filled with hate and judgment that they would never consider that people can change. You kinda sound like that, Charles.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, YOU "know" that because you practice guilt by association, and view Pence through your hatred for Trump. You must be a riot at parties.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostI practice the idea that if you are a part of an administration you should be held accountable no matter your high horse tendencies in texts written in the past.
And I've changed my view on you being a kid. It's sounding more like you're a miserable old man full of judgment and hate.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Chuckles View PostIt seems to me that the most self righteous are those who always find a way to explain why priciples do not matter if they get in their way.
If it is in Pence's best interest you no longer need a president who can act as a role model though he said the opposite at a time when it was in his intetest to say so. Enjoy.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Charles View PostIt would not surorise me if he had, but I do not know.
I don't see how he would be a role model if he had not. Having married three times and had sex with porn stars while married is not a role model.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSo if you work for or with anyone who does not share and uphold your personal core values then you're a hypocrite?
I wonder if even Chuck the Self-Righteous is able to live up to such a lofty ideal. Even Jesus was known to associate with sinners. According to the Gospel of Chuck, that would make Jesus a hypocrite.
One my favorite hymns is "Christ Receiveth Sinful Men"The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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