Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn

[Mountain Man]

I hold women who have been lied to and manipulated by the left less responsible then the medical men and women who know better.

Lies from the left, such as claiming that a preventable pregnancy is a threat to a woman's life, and that murdering the baby in her womb is a morally right option.

You disgust me.

[Starlight]

I despise the lie that murdering the unborn is done for women's health. It literally makes me sick to my stomach.

A major motivator in Ireland of this referendum was the 2012 death of a pregnant woman that was quite a public scandal. After it became clear to doctors she was going to miscarry, she requested an abortion. She was denied that abortion due to the illegality of it, and then she died as a result of the miscarriage. It was a cut and dried case of where legal abortion would have saved her life.

It's worth remembering that historically, a lot of women died in child birth and was one of the biggest general causes of death for women, and that giving birth is extremely dangerous for humans (because we walk upright our hips are narrow, so the babies don't come out as easily as in animals), and that even modern medicine has only mostly alleviated those risks.

[Cow Poke]

It's worth remembering that historically, a lot of women died in child birth and was one of the biggest general causes of death for women, and that giving birth is extremely dangerous for humans (because we walk upright our hips are narrow, so the babies don't come out as easily as in animals), and that even modern medicine has only mostly alleviated those risks.

At least you're calling them BABIES!

[Tassman]

I hold women who have been lied to and manipulated by the left less responsible then the medical men and women who know better.

Lies from the left, such as claiming that a preventable pregnancy is a threat to a woman's life, and that murdering the baby in her womb is a morally right option.

You disgust me.

Oh drop the manufactured outrage. Evangelical rigid opposition to abortion is only a recent phenomenon and your position is a minority one anyway. More than four decades after Roe v. Wade legalised abortion nationwide, most Americans, nearly 60 %, are supportive of legal abortion under certain circumstances, according to a 2017 Pew Research Center survey.

[Tassman]

At least you're calling them BABIES!

I think we can all agree that when they are born, to which Star was referring, they are "babies".

[Starlight]

I think we can all agree that when they are born, to which Star was referring, they are "babies".

Yup, but I do find it amusing that CP thinks that if he twists my words slightly that that is somehow a victory for him or that it makes us think his general position on the issue is any less bonkers.

[KingsGambit]

Oh drop the manufactured outrage. Evangelical rigid opposition to abortion is only a recent phenomenon and your position is a minority one anyway. More than four decades after Roe v. Wade legalised abortion nationwide, most Americans, nearly 60 %, are supportive of legal abortion under certain circumstances, according to a 2017 Pew Research Center survey.

Numerous writings indicate that abortion was considered sinful within dominant quarters of Christianity from the 2nd century AD, so this is hardly a recent phenomenon like you imply.

[Tassman]

Numerous writings indicate that abortion was considered sinful within dominant quarters of Christianity from the 2nd century AD, so this is hardly a recent phenomenon like you imply.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/...gelical-agenda

[Tassman]

Yup, but I do find it amusing that CP thinks that if he twists my words slightly that that is somehow a victory for him or that it makes us think his general position on the issue is any less bonkers.

It's all he ever does. Always with an emoji to show he's a "good sport".

[NorrinRadd]

I associate with a group of pro-life activists on Facebook. One of them who lives in Ireland said one of the big reasons this passed was people perceived that the Catholic Church was even against abortion to save the life of the mother. I hadn't heard anything else about this in the media, though.

Amendment 8 was worded imprecisely, and eventually led to the conflicting rights of mother and unborn child many had feared. However, it appears that High Court rulings gave some clarification. I can't quite grasp why the Savita Halappanavar case had to end in tragedy.

Article.

[rogue06]

Numerous writings indicate that abortion was considered sinful within dominant quarters of Christianity from the 2nd century AD, so this is hardly a recent phenomenon like you imply.

This has been pointed out numerous times complete with quotes and citations but claiming otherwise is part of a mindless mantra chanted by some pro-abortion folks.

[Starlight]

Numerous writings indicate that abortion was considered sinful within dominant quarters of Christianity from the 2nd century AD, so this is hardly a recent phenomenon like you imply.

But it has hardly been the uniform Christian position since the 2nd century as you are implying. As Tass pointed out, for much of the 20th century, Protestant leaders regarded strong opposition to abortion as being a Catholic peculiarity.

[rogue06]

But, as much as we don't like it, abortion is legal. And even if it wasn't, many of these women find themselves in a desperate situation and get sucked into a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

I work a lot with our local pregnancy center, and hear some pretty wild stories. I, personally, have never met a woman who carelessly got pregnant with a notion "if I get pregnant, I'll just get an abortion". But, then again, they wouldn't be coming to our pregnancy center if they were just determined to get an abortion without thinking it through.

I actually knew a woman who was a youth minister with that attitude. She thought using contraception was a sin and figured having an abortion was just one sin while using contraceptives was continual sinning.

[Mountain Man]

A major motivator in Ireland of this referendum was the 2012 death of a pregnant woman that was quite a public scandal. After it became clear to doctors she was going to miscarry, she requested an abortion. She was denied that abortion due to the illegality of it, and then she died as a result of the miscarriage. It was a cut and dried case of where legal abortion would have saved her life.

It's worth remembering that historically, a lot of women died in child birth and was one of the biggest general causes of death for women, and that giving birth is extremely dangerous for humans (because we walk upright our hips are narrow, so the babies don't come out as easily as in animals), and that even modern medicine has only mostly alleviated those risks.

The overwhelming majority of abortions are not medically necessary.

[Mountain Man]

Oh drop the manufactured outrage. Evangelical rigid opposition to abortion is only a recent phenomenon and your position is a minority one anyway. More than four decades after Roe v. Wade legalised abortion nationwide, most Americans, nearly 60 %, are supportive of legal abortion under certain circumstances, according to a 2017 Pew Research Center survey.

It's not manufactured, and the fact that you think someone has to feign outrage at such evil says quite a lot about you.

And the left doesn't want it protected only in "certain circumstances", they want it to be legal and available in EVERY circumstance.