Not really. Roy is rather smart.
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Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostOriginally posted by Mountain Man[Skin cells] do not have the attributes that science uses to describe life (they don't organize, adapt, self-sustain, metabolize, respond to stimuli, etc.)
I challenge you to find just one credible scientific source that describes skins cells as life-forms.
Take your time. I'll wait.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostNot really. Roy is rather smart.Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-02-2018, 11:57 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThen why does he say such stupid stuff like insisting that hair and spermatozoa are organisms? Is he just trolling us?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostCancer is not an organism. It's the body's own cells run amok.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostHe has a position to defend. Intelligence does not preclude one from suffering from ideological blinders, or from grasping at straws rather than admit the other side is correct - especially when the other side is despised.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostCancer is not an organism. It's the body's own cells run amok.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSince I don't think MM even did high school biology since he doesn't seem to understand the most basic definition of 'life' typically used, and Sparko thinks being anti-abortion is all about not killing 'souls' so makes me roll my eyes at him, let's try discussing this with you, CMD, and see if you can put forth decent arguments...
In your post you highlighted the phrase "new individual" in three different quotes, so I assume you see that as an important fact. It is certainly true that an embryo is a developing new individual member of the species in a way that an average cell is not. I note that there are alternative science-based methods for creating new individuals from existing cells, such as creating a clone by implanting DNA into an existing egg, or various processes on a stem cell to create a new individual. However, since you seem to be identifying the idea of a "new individual" as the point of focus and moral concern, I doubt it matters in your morality what the particular origin of that "new individual" member of the species is.
I note that the majority of such "new individuals" die fairly quickly due to developmental failures - they fail to implant properly in the womb, or something goes wrong in their development, etc. In your mind is the death of these developing clump of cells a severe tragedy on par with the death of a 40 year old?
Can you explain why we should consider the point at which the cells become a "new individual" a point of particular moral concern? Why should our morality toward a microscopic clump of cells change just because a few technical changes have occurred in the details of the function of the cells?
1. A human fetus is an individual organism belonging to the Homo sapiens species at the earliest stages of its development (i.e., it's human). It is not the same as a mere skin cell or the like.
2. Humans should not kill other humans without having a really, really good reason for doing so.
3. I don't consider "having a kid would be a real inconvenience for me right now" or the like to be a "really, really good reason" to terminate a human life.
4. Thus, I think that abortion should be reserved only for extreme circumstances, such as when the life of the mother is at risk. Abortion on demand, whenever and for whatever reason, no matter how trivial, should be off the table.Last edited by CMD; 06-02-2018, 06:01 PM.
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Originally posted by CMD View PostMy apologies; not long after posting I got some bad personal news, and I don't really have the time or energy to give the more detailed response that your post deserves, so for now I'm just going to give a really simplified overview of my position on the issue:
1. A human fetus is an individual organism belonging to the Homo sapiens species at the earliest stages of its development (i.e., it's human). It is not the same as a mere skin cell or the like.
2. Humans should not kill other humans without having a really, really good reason for doing so.
3. I don't consider "having a kid would be a real inconvenience for me right now" or the like to be a "really, really good reason" to terminate a human life.
4. Thus, I think that abortion should be reserved only for extreme circumstances, such as when the life of the mother is at risk. Abortion on demand, whenever and for whatever reason, no matter how trivial, should be off the table.
Ergo, I believe abortion should be as non-existent as we can make it. I also believe the only way we can achieve that is to come together (left and right), put all of the techniques we can conceive of for avoiding unwanted pregnancies on the table, and then implement programs to drive unwanted pregnancies as low as they can go. Focus on the impact on the child, the mother, and the community. Emphasize birth control in all of its forms (abstinence, condoms, etc.). Make "unwanted pregnancy" something nobody wants to do. And then implement programs to support those mothers who do end up with an unwanted pregnancy, to encourage them in every way possible/effective to carry the child to term and then either raise it, turn to an adoption agency, or turn to family.
I believe it is possible to get abortion to a fraction of what it is today - but it requires us to work together to achieve it. As long as the focus is law and pitting one side against the other, nothing more will happen and abortions will continue unabated - which would be a travesty.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by CMD View Post1. A human fetus is an individual organism belonging to the Homo sapiens species at the earliest stages of its development (i.e., it's human). It is not the same as a mere skin cell or the like.
2. Humans should not kill other humans without having a really, really good reason for doing so.
3. I don't consider "having a kid would be a real inconvenience for me right now" or the like to be a "really, really good reason" to terminate a human life.
Well you've stated your view but given no reasons for me or anyone else to adopt it. When you're feeling better and have some time, please share your view further."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostWell I don't think "you're inconvenient" would be a good reason for killing your 10 year old kid, but it seems legitimate grounds for swatting a fly or a human embryo that has similar mental capabilities to a fly.
wowThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhich is EGGZACKLY why I worded it like I did. And I guess you're in the same camp that would "swat a fly" just like he would "swat a human embryo".
No surprise there, whatsoever.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostAbortion is not undertaken lightly, or on a "whim", as you lot try to portray those who are pro-choice.
In all seriousness, I think it's reasonable to assume that for most women who are considering getting an abortion, that it's one of the biggest decisions of their lives.Last edited by Starlight; 06-02-2018, 11:43 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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