Do you defend Trump's infidelity?

[guacamole]

Show where in the Bible it says that Christians should judge each other. The only verses I can recall off the top of my head are ones that caution us not to judge each other.

I guess I'm not following you and Cowpoke here. It seems to me that if we be disciples, we do keep each other accountable to the standards of Scripture:

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness all imply the necessity of moral and spiritual judgement, especially for Christian leadership. If we cannot judge, at least according to the definition I offer below, then we cannot take the actions above the Paul indicates we do with the support of scripture.

Although I suppose it would help if you defined exactly what you mean by "judge" since it's one of those words that seems to mean different things to different people.

I think "judge" was originally your word in this thread, not mine. However, since I used it, this is what I meant:

judge = If someone claims to be a disciple, determine whether or not they are living in accordance with the moral and spiritual truths of the New Testament, and if they are not, take corrective action based on the nature of their sin or error with regard to the severity of their problem and the position they hold in the church.

I don't think passages like "judge not lest you be judged" let you off the hook from that.

I would especially like to see some scriptural support for your general premise that those who vote for the (in your opinion) "wrong" candidate will be held accountable by God.

I don't believe I've asserted that here. I'm specifically talking about--as indicated by my first post in this thread--Evangelical leadership who have endorsed Trump in their capacity as evangelical leaders.

fwiw,
guacamole

[JimL]

You are ignorant and unstable.

Well who was corret concerning our judging of others, Jesus or Paul?

[Cow Poke]

Oooh, will you be so kind as to give us the spin, CP?

No "spin" necessary, Jim.

If a Christian sees another Christian doing something that would negatively impact his Christian testimony, he has an obligation to lovingly correct that person. He is not to "judge" in the sense of 'passing judgment for the sake of passing judgment', or simply bringing on condemnation, but he would be 'judging' in the sense of evaluating the actions so he could offer assistance, encouragement, correction.

Hence, my post...

Which comes back to your question of what definition of "judge" Guac is using.

Essentially, we are to be fruit inspectors, not judges of each other. And, yes, we are to be accountable to each other.

And I appreciate Guac's explanation of how he was using the word "judge".

[JimL]

No "spin" necessary, Jim.

If a Christian sees another Christian doing something that would negatively impact his Christian testimony, he has an obligation to lovingly correct that person. He is not to "judge" in the sense of 'passing judgment for the sake of passing judgment', or simply bringing on condemnation, but he would be 'judging' in the sense of evaluating the actions so he could offer assistance, encouragement, correction.

Hence, my post...



And I appreciate Guac's explanation of how he was using the word "judge".

I knew you could come up with something CP, but unfortunately Paul disagrees with you as Sparko has pointed out.

[Cow Poke]

I think "judge" was originally your word in this thread, not mine. However, since I used it, this is what I meant:

judge = If someone claims to be a disciple, determine whether or not they are living in accordance with the moral and spiritual truths of the New Testament...

[Cow Poke]

I knew you could come up with something CP, but unfortunately Paul disagrees with you as Sparko has pointed out.

No, it's your bastardization of Paul's teaching that disagrees with me.

[JimL]

No, it's your bastardization of Paul's teaching that disagrees with me.

Well, apparently you haven't read the passage then.

[Zymologist]

We will judge angels, but are instructed not to judge one another, "lest we be judged".

When you say we're instructed not to judge one another, which passage are you referring to?

[Mountain Man]

I think "judge" was originally your word in this thread, not mine.

The hypocrisy of the evangelical leadership who support Trump--the "Family Values" party--is especially odious, and if scripture be true, they will be judged.

When I asked for scriptural support for this assertion, you replied:

Christian support of non-Christian politicians is fraught with spiritual peril, imo.

[Mountain Man]

1 Corinthians 5:12
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

Read the preceding 11 verses. Paul is talking about a very specific issue that was happening in the church, and verse 12 does not grant a blanket license for Christians to arbitrarily judge each other.

[Cow Poke]

Read the preceding 11 verses. Paul is talking about a very specific issue that was happening in the church, and verse 12 does not grant a blanket license for Christians to arbitrarily judge each other.

I think, like so many things in Christianity, it all comes back to motive - if the "judging" is a kind of "I'm better than you, so I'm going to point out all your faults" (Matt 7). it's denounced. If it's judging (evaluating / fruit inspecting) to know how best to help that person, it's encouraged.

[Mountain Man]

I think, like so many things in Christianity, it all comes back to motive - if the "judging" is a kind of "I'm better than you, so I'm going to point out all your faults" (Matt 7). it's denounced. If it's judging (evaluating / fruit inspecting) to know how best to help that person, it's encouraged.

Like Jesus said with the "beam in your own eye" analogy, he said to remove the beam so that you can see clearly to help -- not condemn but help -- the other person.

[Zymologist]

This might be preaching to the choir, but I'll throw in my (judgmental) two cents:

I feel like the point of the analogy Jesus gave in the beginning of Matthew 7 gets missed for the first thing he said, which was, "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." He immediately follows that up with an analogy about removing a speck of dust from a brother's eye, and how absurd is it to do so when you have a log in your own. (hilarious mental image, btw) He goes on to say, "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then

[Cow Poke]

This might be preaching to the choir, but I'll throw in my (judgmental) two cents:

I feel like the point of the analogy Jesus gave in the beginning of Matthew 7 gets missed for the first thing he said, which was, "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." He immediately follows that up with an analogy about removing a speck of dust from a brother's eye, and how absurd is it to do so when you have a log in your own. (hilarious mental image, btw) He goes on to say, "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. What am I missing?

[Zymologist]

I think we're saying the same thing in different ways. What am I missing?

Nothing, I don't think there's any real disagreement here, except for how this applies to voting.