Murder Rate In London...

[Roy]

You don't even seem to know what I was claiming.

You were claiming that the supposed rise in right-wing hate crimes against Muslims was liberal propaganda.

Or at least, that's what you wrote. If you intended to claim something else, or thought you were claiming something else, or can't remember what you claimed, or (most likely) are now trying to pretend you were claiming something else because your actual claim was total bollocks as usual, that's your problem.

Your own source shows that hate crimes against Muslims in the US doubled, but you're too lazy, gullible and stupid to notice, and now also too fragile to admit your source mislead you and you made a mistake.

I also like how you cut out the part of my post which read '["hate crime"] is such a tenuous thing to begin with; like the UK, many US law enforcement agencies base it on victim perception rather than on any thing that can be factually proven'. Maybe because that doesn't fit your narrative? Could it be that more Muslims feel victimized because liberal propaganda is telling them to feel victimized?

Perhaps. But since there has been a rise in hate crimes against Muslims I see no reason to find any other reason why they might feel more victimized than they actually are being more victimized. Apparently that doesn't fit your narrative.

[Roy]

It's been very quiet in this thread since the pensioner who defended himself has been released without charge.

[Mountain Man]

You were claiming that the supposed rise in right-wing hate crimes against Muslims was liberal propaganda.

Or at least, that's what you wrote. If you intended to claim something else, or thought you were claiming something else, or can't remember what you claimed, or (most likely) are now trying to pretend you were claiming something else because your actual claim was total bollocks as usual, that's your problem.

Your own source shows that hate crimes against Muslims in the US doubled, but you're too lazy, gullible and stupid to notice, and now also too fragile to admit your source mislead you and you made a mistake.

Perhaps. But since there has been a rise in hate crimes against Muslims I see no reason to find any other reason why they might feel more victimized than they actually are being more victimized. Apparently that doesn't fit your narrative.

Spin spin spin...

Of course none of this changes the fact that "hate crime" is an almost meaningless classification given the lack of objective standards to determine when it has occurred, nor does it change the fact that Breitbart was 100% correct to report that at the time the article in question was written, over 80% of reported "hate crimes" were committed against non-Muslims.

[Littlejoe]

It's been very quiet in this thread since the pensioner who defended himself has been released without charge.

thanks for the update!
I actually had not heard anything further about it. I wonder why it took so long to free him? The article said he had an invalid wife who needed him. For constant care.

[Roy]

thanks for the update!
I actually had not heard anything further about it.

Yeah, "Pensioner arrested for stabbing burglar" doesn't have as much potential for outrage as "Pensioner released without charge".

I wonder why it took so long to free him? The article said he had an invalid wife who needed him. For constant care.

It didn't take that long - just two days. I doubt the police could have verified his account much quicker.

[Catholicity]

And now, in London a 78 year old man is arrested for killing a burglar who broke into his house in the middle of the night, by stabbing him to death. The facts are not all in, it's still unclear whether the stabbing was from the screwdriver or a bladed weapon of some kind. But, in but the initial read is he tackled a burglar in the kitchen who was armed with a screw driver, and the man stabbed. Later collapsed in the street and was DOA.

So, in London, you can't even defend your home and family against burglars??? You are just supposed to let them come in and steal whatever they want and let them peacefully leave? I'm gobsmacked. I just hope this isn't where we are headed in America.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-break-in.html

It seems to be where some people want the country to go.

[Littlejoe]

Yeah, "Pensioner arrested for stabbing burglar" doesn't have as much potential for outrage as "Pensioner released without charge".It didn't take that long - just two days. I doubt the police could have verified his account much quicker.

2 days in jail when they don't know what happened seems like a lot to me. If this had happened in my city, what would most likely have happened is this: Police patrol would show up, lock down the crime scene and begin an investigation questioning the home owner and anyone else in the house...probably the neighbors as well. Meanwhile, the Detective on Call would have been called out. Meanwhile, the home owner would be waiting for the detective, possibly in his living room/den, especially if the weather were a bit nasty. The detective would question the home owner again and compare what he told him with what had been relayed to the Patrol Officers. Most likely no one would sleep for at least 4 - 5 hours as they check the evidence and do forensic work. Most likely, the police would all leave and the home owner would be left at his home, possibly with instructions to not leave the county without letting them know. At some point in the next week or two, the evidence is sent to the District Attorney to determine if they wish to pursue it further. Most likely it would not and the home owner would be informed that no charges will be filed.

That they held him for 2 days in jail when he had a sick wife at home, is in my mind, unconscionable.

[EvoUK]

He killed a man, and it was investigated. Luckily for him no charges were filed, and i don't mean that in a sarcastic way. Recently specially trained Police Officers shot and killed an allegedly armed suspect, and are going through a full debrief & investigation to ensure the killing was justified, as is the norm.

[Starlight]

2 days in jail when they don't know what happened seems like a lot to me.

He KILLED someone.

This is the sort of thing I am referring to when I say that conservatives in the US don't seem to value life as much as the rest of us. To to rest of us, killing someone is BAD and SERIOUS. Even if it was necessary and justified. The taking of a life is such serious business that, yes, even if it was done because you didn't have any other choice and even if you are released without charge, then spending 2 days being held and discussing what you did with the police strikes me as totally reasonable and appropriate. You should really really feel bad about what you were forced to do. It shouldn't be treated as something that is in any way okay. It's a terrible and awful event which needs to be seriously and carefully investigated to double-check and triple-check that it really was necessary. And the person who committed the horrendous act, for their own peace of mind and to help them sleep at night, would themselves want careful and independent 3rd party confirmation that it was really necessary to do what they did.

Whereas the rest of us look at the US police attitude of "someone was killed, he was probably a bad dude, it's fine, carry on" with utter horror at the immorality of it.

[Littlejoe]

He killed a man, and it was investigated. Luckily for him no charges were filed, and i don't mean that in a sarcastic way.

Understood, but a 78 year old pensioner with a sick wife is most likely not a flight risk. Investigation could have continued without him jailed unless there were suspicions that he had outright murdered the deceased man...which is unlikely just on the face of things.

Recently specially trained Police Officers shot and killed an allegedly armed suspect, and are going through a full debrief & investigation to ensure the killing was justified, as is the norm.

Are these officers also in jail?

[Littlejoe]

He KILLED someone.

This is the sort of thing I am referring to when I say that conservatives in the US don't seem to value life as much as the rest of us. To to rest of us, killing someone is BAD and SERIOUS. Even if it was necessary and justified. The taking of a life is such serious business that, yes, even if it was done because you didn't have any other choice and even if you are released without charge, then spending 2 days being held and discussing what you did with the police strikes me as totally reasonable and appropriate. You should really really feel bad about what you were forced to do. It shouldn't be treated as something that is in any way okay. It's a terrible and awful event which needs to be seriously and carefully investigated to double-check and triple-check that it really was necessary. And the person who committed the horrendous act, for their own peace of mind and to help them sleep at night, would themselves want careful and independent 3rd party confirmation that it was really necessary to do what they did.

Whereas the rest of us look at the US police attitude of "someone was killed, he was probably a bad dude, it's fine, carry on" with utter horror at the immorality of it.

Based on your views of others lives being brutally snuffed out, namely the innocent unborn, this accusation rings incredibly hollow in my mind.

Working as a volunteer chaplain both with police and in a prison ministry, it quickly becomes obvious that unless you are sociopathic or psychopathic, any "normal" person will feel intense remorse for killing someone, even in self defense. Everyone recognizes it as a bad thing. Forcing someone to endure hours and hours of questioning about it, does not ease that remorse. Again, a 78 y.o. pensioner with an invalid wife, is unlikely to be an outright murderer. Investigations easily could have been conducted at the home and therefore, without endangering his wife.

[Starlight]

Based on your views of others lives being brutally snuffed out, namely the innocent unborn, this accusation rings incredibly hollow in my mind.

Is there something non-functional in the brains of the anti-abortion advocates on this forum that you don't understand the fundamental and basic issue, that we don't consider fetuses to be fully-formed alive conscious and intelligent human people? I am passionate about the value of conscious and intelligent human life, and as such I strongly oppose the death penalty, military actions, police shootings, drone strikes, gun ownership and use against humans etc. And since I don't consider fetuses to be people much more than I consider my hair to be a person or a flake of my skin to be a person, my deep concern for the value of life doesn't apply at all to fetuses. The continuing inability of the anti-abortion brigade to understand and comprehend that basic idea is depressing. How is it that you guys, on an issue you're so passionate about, you fail to understand even the basics of the view of the other side, even when you've been told it about a thousand times?

Again, a 78 y.o. pensioner with an invalid wife, is unlikely to be an outright murderer. Investigations easily could have been conducted at the home and therefore, without endangering his wife.

The news articles are a bit hit and miss on any mention of the wife. However, remember this is the UK - they have free government provided healthcare for all - if the wife needed any assistance she would be getting it. Holding the pensioner in custody wouldn't have "endangered the wife", that is just a silly claim, if he'd indicated his wife needed assistance while he was in custody they'd have sent out someone to take care of her.

[Littlejoe]

Is there something non-functional in the brains of the anti-abortion advocates on this forum that you don't understand the fundamental and basic issue, that we don't consider fetuses to be fully-formed alive conscious and intelligent human people? I am passionate about the value of conscious and intelligent human life, and as such I strongly oppose the death penalty, military actions, police shootings, drone strikes, gun ownership and use against humans etc. And since I don't consider fetuses to be people much more than I consider my hair to be a person or a flake of my skin to be a person, my deep concern for the value of life doesn't apply at all to fetuses. The continuing inability of the anti-abortion brigade to understand and comprehend that basic idea is depressing. How is it that you guys, on an issue you're so passionate about, you fail to understand even the basics of the view of the other side, even when you've been told it about a thousand times?

And you think we're heartless monsters... Sorry, but, we do understand it, we just wonder how you can be so callous when it comes to babies, but appalled that a criminal is killed. Your disconnect seems as bad to us as our does to you. Sad that you can't see that either. Your ad-hom is duly noted and dismissed as the hot air it is.

The news articles are a bit hit and miss on any mention of the wife. However, remember this is the UK - they have free government provided healthcare for all - if the wife needed any assistance she would be getting it. Holding the pensioner in custody wouldn't have "endangered the wife", that is just a silly claim, if he'd indicated his wife needed assistance while he was in custody they'd have sent out someone to take care of her.

Not surprising, we disagree again that jailing the 78 year old home owner as a potential murderer was necessary is beyond me. Sorry, my own Dad is 77, I can't imagine him being forced to fight someone in his home, for that person to die and him being forced to sit in jail for 2 days and leave my 75 y.o. mother at home alone for those 2 days...

[Starlight]

And you think we're heartless monsters...

Yes, because you guys consistently act like it.

we just wonder how you can be so callous when it comes to babies, but appalled that a criminal is killed.

[Littlejoe]

Yes, because you guys consistently act like it.

Brilliant!