Now A Census Question Is Evil...

[Sparko]

Why? It's been that way for 250+ years. How can you justify picking and choosing from what the FF's apparently wanted? After all, that is the sine qua non, right?

They did have a stipulation that the person had be be free from the jurisdiction of another nation to be a citizen. Which is why the Indians were not citizens for so long and why if tourists from another country happen to have a kid while visiting the USA aren't citizens.

The Supreme court needs to recognize that illegal aliens are still under the jurisdiction of their home country, even though they are living in the USA illegally. Then their children would also be under the jurisdiction of the other country just like a tourist's kid would be.

[One Bad Pig]

My position is not held on the basis of fear. A question on citizenship will likely result in many who are here illegally simply avoiding the census.

How, exactly, is this not on the basis of fear?

Or are you just doing your usual "I said this, but I meant that" dance?

[seer]

When my children use the phrase, "that is not fair," I usually remind them no one guaranteed them life would be fair, usually followed by a "stop whining." I've been tempted to send Trump a postcard.

But it is not fair, illegals do not have the right of representation - they are not citizens.

[One Bad Pig]

When my children use the phrase, "that is not fair," I usually remind them no one guaranteed them life would be fair, usually followed by a "stop whining." I've been tempted to send Trump a postcard.

...but not those here illegally, naturally. Why shouldn't THEY stop whining? Riddle me that, Batman.

[Mountain Man]

But it is not fair, illegals do not have the right of representation - they are not citizens.

I would say that it's unjust rather than unfair.

[carpedm9587]

They did have a stipulation that the person had be be free from the jurisdiction of another nation to be a citizen. Which is why the Indians were not citizens for so long and why if tourists from another country happen to have a kid while visiting the USA aren't citizens.

The Supreme court needs to recognize that illegal aliens are still under the jurisdiction of their home country, even though they are living in the USA illegally. Then their children would also be under the jurisdiction of the other country just like a tourist's kid would be.

Immigration is not a hot button for me. IMO, much ado about not much. Our processes/protections have been sloppy, so fix them. Give those who are here a path to citizenship and put a stake in the sand and say "no more," effective now - and then act on it. Meanwhile, keep a healthy level of immigration activity on the legal side, and maintain a reasonable/high level of refugee support.

The rest of the bruhaha is just fear-mongering, IMO.

[carpedm9587]

How, exactly, is this not on the basis of fear?

Or are you just doing your usual "I said this, but I meant that" dance?

Since my experience is that denying it just gets me further accused of doing it, I don't see a point in responding, beyond this observation.

[carpedm9587]

But it is not fair, illegals do not have the right of representation - they are not citizens.

Who told you life would be fair? Stop whining.

[carpedm9587]

...but not those here illegally, naturally. Why shouldn't THEY stop whining? Riddle me that, Batman.

I usually have no sympathy for anyone whining, "it's not fair!" It doesn't really matter to me who they are.

[Sparko]

Immigration is not a hot button for me. IMO, much ado about not much. Our processes/protections have been sloppy, so fix them. Give those who are here a path to citizenship and put a stake in the sand and say "no more," effective now - and then act on it. Meanwhile, keep a healthy level of immigration activity on the legal side, and maintain a reasonable/high level of refugee support.

The rest of the bruhaha is just fear-mongering, IMO.

I think legal immigration should be easier. I think they make it way too difficult for people who genuinely want to come here and make a living. On the other hand, they seem to welcome in "refugees" in a flood from dangerous parts of the world without proper checks.

I think they need more security, but if people pass that then have less regulations on who is allowed to immigrate. RationalGaze one of our members, lived in the UK and married another member here, Quantafille. It was very difficult for him to get permission to immigrate to the US. He had to have a job, and all sorts of checks and paperwork. I think someone who is married to an American should at least get a green card after making sure it isn't a sham wedding.

[Mountain Man]

I still think we need to roll things back to the way they were before Ted Kennedy threw open the doors of our borders and hollered, "Come on in, y'all!"

[rogue06]

They need to fix that so that the parents have to be living in the USA legally.

Big time.

[carpedm9587]

I think legal immigration should be easier. I think they make it way too difficult for people who genuinely want to come here and make a living. On the other hand, they seem to welcome in "refugees" in a flood from dangerous parts of the world without proper checks.

I have not seen any indication that checks are omitted. It is true that they are often more difficult to do, and refugees do pose a greater risk. I'm not afraid of it. We've taken in thousands of refugees and they statistically pose an extremely low risk. I don't waste time being afraid of "unlikely" things when there are far more "likely" things that need my/our attention.

I think they need more security, but if people pass that then have less regulations on who is allowed to immigrate. RationalGaze one of our members, lived in the UK and married another member here, Quantafille. It was very difficult for him to get permission to immigrate to the US. He had to have a job, and all sorts of checks and paperwork. I think someone who is married to an American should at least get a green card after making sure it isn't a sham wedding.

I reviewed the security that was in place (what I could find about it) before Trump started his "extreme vetting." It had already been through several rounds of tightening up and was pretty tight already, and the testament to that, IMO, was the results. Trump threw a lot of anti-immigrant smoke into the air and generated a lot of anti-immigrant sentiment that i just don't buy in to. The "lottery" system is unfortunately named, but as safe as the rest. I certainly have no problem with trying to increase immigration of upper talent, but I don't think we should do so at the expense of the rank-and-file. We have work to be done across the spectrum.

I agree with your observation about married couples, after reasonable efforts to weed out sham weddings. I would go beyond green card and, assuming they so desire, make sure there is a reasonable path to citizenship.

[seer]

Who told you life would be fair? Stop whining.

OK, so following the law by removing illegals is whining?

[carpedm9587]

OK, so following the law by removing illegals is whining?

If you read carefully, you won't find any of those words in my post.