Florida School Shooting

[guacamole]

A bit of a distortion here. A large bit. Who has suggested killing to prevent REASONABLE laws from being enacted? Laws going against the Constitution are not legally reasonable.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems to me like there is a bit of latitude there. Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment? All of them? Some of them?

[guacamole]

Total gun prohibition is not legal even if pseudo legal processes were used to pass such laws.

The constitution can be amended. That's what I meant by legal, constitutional means.

[Mountain Man]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I've never denied that people will sometimes use other methods to kill people if they don't have a gun. Killing someone with a knife is a lot harder to do than it is to kill someone with a gun. That should be basic common sense. I admitted to Little Joe that Britain's 12 year rise in homicide is interesting. The fact that the numbers are now below ban levels is also interesting.

I will take this as your roundabout way of conceding the point that guns aren't the problem.

[Jedidiah]

I don't know why this counter-argument keeps popping up. It's been explained over and over again (at least by me) that no one is arguing that access to guns makes people more criminal. The argument is that violence committed with guns is more lethal. You're asking the completely wrong question. Anyways, the pdf that guacamole and I have linked to points out that a lot of those guns come from Gary, IN, which has its own reputation. Not that that matters.

You are refuting yourself here. If it is not access to guns that makes people more criminal then limiting guns is pointless. When I was a kid the gangs mostly killed one another with "zip guns." They were not so heavily into money making crime that they could often afford guns. Now that gang related crime is so profitable they (criminals) can afford them.

[Sparko]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems to me like there is a bit of latitude there. Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment? All of them? Some of them?

it says "arms" which means pretty much any weapon. It doesn't distinguish. So constitutionally it includes knives, swords, guns, missiles, nuclear weapons and rocks.

[Jedidiah]

I am probably on every government watch list now for googling "domestic violence methods and weapons"

Ain't freedom great?

[Mountain Man]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems to me like there is a bit of latitude there. Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment? All of them? Some of them?

I see where you're headed, it's the old "the Founding Fathers never could have dreamed of today's technologically advanced weapons when they wrote the Second Amendment, so it should be assumed to only apply to muskets and flintlock pistols" chestnut. That would be as silly as saying, "The Founding Fathers never dreamed of something as technologically advanced as the Internet when they wrote the First Amendment, so it should be assumed to only apply to newspapers and books."

But the answer to your question "Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment?" is, of course, all of them.

[Darth Executor]

The constitution can be amended. That's what I meant by legal, constitutional means.

Yes, it can be amended to ban guns. It can also be amended to order Exterminatus Extremis on the entire progressive population. It can be amended to demand the construction and maintenance of a 100 foot tall chocolate cake.

[Jedidiah]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems to me like there is a bit of latitude there. Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment? All of them? Some of them?

Non responsive.

[Adrift]

I will take this as your roundabout way of conceding the point that guns aren't the problem.

I've maintained from the start that guns aren't THE problem. They're part of the problem. Which is precisely why I'm for multi-pronged solutions in dealing with the problem.

[Adrift]

You are refuting yourself here. If it is not access to guns that makes people more criminal then limiting guns is pointless. When I was a kid the gangs mostly killed one another with "zip guns." They were not so heavily into money making crime that they could often afford guns. Now that gang related crime is so profitable they (criminals) can afford them.

It's not a refutation at all. Why would anyone think that guns make people more criminal? If that's honestly what you all think is the gun control view, then no wonder there's so much miscommunication about the subject. The argument is, again, that violence committed with guns is more lethal.

[Cow Poke]

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It seems to me like there is a bit of latitude there. Exactly which firearms are covered by the second amendment? All of them? Some of them?

Probably those which would have been adequate for protection against a rogue government. I doubt the would have intentionally left the citizenry outgunned.

[Cow Poke]

I will take this as your roundabout way of conceding the point that guns aren't the problem.

But it coincides with a primary liberal goal.

[rogue06]

Probably those which would have been adequate for protection against a rogue government. I doubt the would have intentionally left the citizenry outgunned.

Why do you always have to make this about me? smiley dejected2.gif

[Cow Poke]

Why do you always have to make this about me? [ATTACH=CONFIG]26680[/ATTACH]

OK, I take it back - this particular rogue government.. it's hard not to be outgunned by it.