Florida School Shooting

[Roy]

... And why are you including both injured and dead? That sounds like you're purposely attempting to balloon up numbers. ...

You read right over my point...it was easy to do, so I don't blame you...I actually said INJURED and killed.

He didn't read over your point, he correctly noted that you and your source are cherry picking the data, e.g. by including bomb victims from the Paris attacks but not from the Boston marathon event, in order to paint a misleading picture.

[Adrift]

You still haven't really explained your reasoning. Obvious to you doesn't mean we get it. Explain exactly why you pick Australia and England instead of Mexico and Brazil? I'm sure you don't m mean to but...you are still coming across as very prejudice IMO and cherry picking.

Huh? I did explain my reasoning. The US, like other 1st world nations have the wealth, resources, and transparency to carry out something like gun control. Incredibly poor, and corrupt nations likes Mexico and Jamaica do not. I can't help but feel that you're putting me on, that you understand this as well, but you're pretending not to. But if you sincerely feel that the reason I offer is not reasoning, or if you really do deem it prejudism and cherry picking, then I don't know what more I can say. You will have to go away thinking I'm unreasonable, and prejudiced I suppose.

Because they make up such a small percentage of the total? Why focus on only those? So far, 349 people died in Chicago from gun violence this year why is there no outcry, no threads about it?

Gun control advocates are aware of this, and also think it's bad. Gun control advocates don't only advocate when no mass shootings go on, but when a mass shooting happens, it's natural for these issues to come to the forefront for the Joe on the street. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

You read right over my point...it was easy to do, so I don't blame you...I actually said INJURED and killed.

No, I definitely saw that and addressed it, here, I'll repeat what I wrote, "And why are you including both injured and dead? That sounds like you're purposely attempting to balloon up numbers."

What are you using as a criteria for Mass shootings on that site? If you go by the 4 dead minimum then I think your number is off. According to the site you don't trust (CPRC) the US total should be 264 injured, 263 dead for a total of 527. Yes, we have more dead, but that's just coincidence IMO as there were 382 more that were injured in the mass shooting in France for a total of 540. US had

I am going by 4 minimum dead. I can list the tragedies for you if you'd like (it'll take a bit), but they're in the middle of the page I linked. Again, why are you selectively choosing just the Obama administration to make your point? The Paris terrorist attack alone that included both mass shooting AND suicide bombs counts for the majority of dead and wounded in France's 6 attacks during Obama's administration. You might as well compare that one attack to the September 11th attack on the Twin Towers. And still, America saw more dead during Obama's administration due to mass shootings.

[Mountain Man]

Yes it is...and mass shootings seem to be driving these discussions, as we don't get "worked up" about gun violence until there's a mass shooting at a school, church, mall, etc.

Gang-bangers in Chicago cutting each other down by the score, but liberals never say a peep about it because 1) Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country; and 2) it's largely black-on-black violence, neither of which can be used to promote the left's agenda.

[Bill the Cat]

Freedom necessitates the ability to abuse that freedom. Allowing someone the choice to be armed automatically means that someone can abuse their right.

[guacamole]

1) Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

Chicago is literally across the street from Indiana and Indiana's gun laws. In effect, Chicago has no gun laws. Anyone wanting to buy a firearm in Chicago simply needs to go to one of the many Indian gun shows and do a private seller to private buyer transaction. We regulate fireworks here better than we do firearms.

[Cow Poke]

Chicago is literally across the street from Indiana and Indiana's gun laws. In effect, Chicago has no gun laws. Anyone wanting to buy a firearm in Chicago simply needs to go to one of the many Indiana gun shows and do a private seller to private buyer transaction. We regulate fireworks here better than we do firearms.

Do Chicago's laws only prohibit the purchase of firearms? Or do they also prohibit the ownership of firearms.

[Darth Executor]

Chicago is literally across the street from Indiana and Indiana's gun laws. In effect, Chicago has no gun laws. Anyone wanting to buy a firearm in Chicago simply needs to go to one of the many Indiana gun shows and do a private seller to private buyer transaction. We regulate fireworks here better than we do firearms.

do you have some data that shows this actually happens?

[Cow Poke]

Do Chicago's laws only prohibit the purchase of firearms? Or do they also prohibit the ownership of firearms.

According to the Chicago Tribute....

A refresher course on gun ownership in the city, and concealed carry

City residents can own firearms but with several conditions: You must be 21 years old and possess a firearm owner's identification (FOID) card and concealed carry license, both issued by Illinois State Police.

Prior to getting a concealed carry license, residents must complete a 16-hour training course, which includes a gun range test that residents must pass, as well as coursework on gun safety. They are also subject to a background check and must pay a $150 application fee. Applicants may be denied a concealed carry license, or have law enforcement agencies object to their applications, if they have particular criminal convictions.

Those who keep guns in the home must hold only a valid FOID card. Gun owners who carry a firearm outside the home must have an FOID and a concealed carry permit.

So, you can't just cross the state line, buy a gun, and be legal. And, yet ... the murder rate...

[Adrift]

do you have some data that shows this actually happens?

Here you are,

https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...er/GTR2017.pdf

"With consistent data trends now going back almost a decade, the majority of illegally used or possessed firearms recovered in Chicago are traced back to states with less regulation over firearms, such as Indiana and Mississippi: More than two of every five traceable crime guns recovered in Chicago originate with their first point of sale at an Illinois dealer. The remaining 60 percent of firearms come from out of state, with Indiana as the primary source for approximately one out of every five crime guns."

[Mountain Man]

Chicago is literally across the street from Indiana and Indiana's gun laws. In effect, Chicago has no gun laws. Anyone wanting to buy a firearm in Chicago simply needs to go to one of the many Indian gun shows and do a private seller to private buyer transaction. We regulate fireworks here better than we do firearms.

Oh, I see, so it's Indiana's fault that Chicago's excessively strict gun laws are ineffective.

The point, of course, is that when government enacts prohibitively restrictive gun laws, people will simply acquire their guns illegally. And my guess is, the kids in the "hood" aren't lining up to take their licensing exam, which supports another point, that gun regulation only impacts law abiding citizens.

[Darth Executor]

Here you are,

https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...er/GTR2017.pdf

"With consistent data trends now going back almost a decade, the majority of illegally used or possessed firearms recovered in Chicago are traced back to states with less regulation over firearms, such as Indiana and Mississippi: More than two of every five traceable crime guns recovered in Chicago originate with their first point of sale at an Illinois dealer. The remaining 60 percent of firearms come from out of state, with Indiana as the primary source for approximately one out of every five crime guns."

So only one fifth (or one fifth of 60%) actually come from Indiana? and that's with the data including those illegally obtained. As I suspected, not a lot of gangbangers walking over to Indiana to buy guns. Most likely they were bought in bulk from illegal dealers by more centralized gang operations.

[Darth Executor]

Oh, I see, so it's Indiana's fault that Chicago's excessively strict gun laws are ineffective.

In the event of a nationwide gun ban guns would simply start flowing out of south america like drugs do, through the same porous border liberals insist be kept open.

[Adrift]

So only one fifth (or one fifth of 60%) actually come from Indiana? and that's with the data including those illegally obtained. As I suspected, not a lot of gangbangers walking over to Indiana to buy guns. Most likely they were bought in bulk from illegal dealers by more centralized gang operations.

The report goes into some of the gun shops, including those in Indiana, that have been involved.

[Mountain Man]

Freedom necessitates the ability to abuse that freedom. Allowing someone the choice to be armed automatically means that someone can abuse their right.

This begs an interesting question: can a right really be abused? Usually when someone is said to have "abused" a right, they have stepped outside the bounds of what that right reasonably entails. For instance, the right to free speech does not encompass the right to create a situation that physically endangers others -- the classic example of yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, for example, or inciting violence. Similarly, the right to bear arms does not include the right to indiscriminately shoot people.

[guacamole]

do you have some data that shows this actually happens?

Here's a link to a report compiled by Chicago's mayor's office. Feel free to peruse:

https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...er/GTR2017.pdf

Key points of data is that 60% of the traceable sales of firearms took place outside of Illinois. The overwhelming majority of them took place outside of the city.

Chicago being a key meme example of "failed gun laws," I doubt this data will have any impact.

fwiw,
guacamole