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Florida School Shooting
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIf you can't rely on four armed sheriff's deputies at the school to do what they were trained for, what makes you think you could rely on an armed history teacher or a canteen staff member etc to do any better?
Parkland school shooting: Football coach Aaron Feis died shielding students
"It is with Great sadness that our Football Family has learned about the death of Aaron Feis. He was our Assistant Football Coach and security guard," Marjory Stoneman football said on Twitter. "He selflessly shielded students from the shooter when he was shot. He died a hero and he will forever be in our hearts and memories."
If he had had access to a firearm, who knows how this would have been different.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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FBI call center: Where an ominous tip about a suspected school shooter went to die
There's a lot to be said for getting angry if it leads to meaningful changes. I've been to the vigils, and the memorials, and I'm ready to move on to fixing things.
That call center needs fixing.
Meaningful changes won't be so easy. Says here none of the gun control legislation being considered will make a meaningful difference either. Well, except for older men at risk of suicide and younger women at risk of domestic violence.
I don't care much for arming up hoping to cut the casualties either. Before we even start talking about how awful an idea it would be to train teachers to act like SWAT officers while habituating kids to prison conditions, people attacking that school cop ought to be thinking about what froze him in place.
I'm in that school, and I'm exactly the guy you want to arm, a mature veteran with no fear or excitement about using a weapon if it needs to be done, and I'm saying don't even think it if you're not willing to put arms on me at least as powerful as the arms I'm likely to be defending against.
I can't think of anything more asinine than planning to go into a battle outgunned.
On the positive side, that long gun slanted in the corner would be a great way to redirect some math anxiety syndrome. But, after asking, it turns out none of my students would feel safer with me, or anyone else, armed and carrying in the room.
#armmewith the tools I need to help my students learn.
There's no particularly good reason to believe this is something we're going to fix. This time we got luckier, in some sick sense, because the survivors can speak, and speak well, too, a considerable advantage over the survivors of Sandy Hook. Not that being a victim magically changes students into experts on eliminating gun violence. It does make them powerful spokespeople for demanding fixes from those they turn to looking for that expertise.
Says here the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories are already reloaded, calling these kids out as crisis actors. Number one video on YouTube. The InfoWarriors would be a lot easier to ignore if the president's son hadn't found one, and the president wasn't retweeting them, too.
#neveragain
It's going to happen again because things happen for a reason. I can remember thinking that reason had something to do with good and evil and a divine actor directing the affairs of men for some noble purpose. It's a lot easier to fix things once you realize the real reason things happen is because they can. There are places where this doesn't happen. Fixing this can happen.
These kids don't understand how long it's going to take.
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostIt's going to happen again because things happen for a reason. I can remember thinking that reason had something to do with good and evil and a divine actor directing the affairs of men for some noble purpose. It's a lot easier to fix things once you realize the real reason things happen is because they can. There are places where this doesn't happen. Fixing this can happen.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't get this line. It sounds like you're saying that the mass shooting epidemic is hard to fix in America because of a deterministic belief by theists that everything is guided by the hand of God. That being an atheist allows you to fix things easier because nothing is left up to some idea about...fate...? Is that right?Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't get this line. It sounds like you're saying that the mass shooting epidemic is hard to fix in America because of a deterministic belief by theists that everything is guided by the hand of God. That being an atheist allows you to fix things easier because nothing is left up to some idea about...fate...? Is that right?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostI'm in that school, and I'm exactly the guy you want to arm, a mature veteran with no fear or excitement about using a weapon if it needs to be done, and I'm saying don't even think it if you're not willing to put arms on me at least as powerful as the arms I'm likely to be defending against.
The advantages the cop had over the kid are enormous. The advantages the kid had over the cop are insignificant. Yes, he had a stronger weapon with a higher bullet count, neither of which mean anything. He can't take advantage of the rifle's longer range indoors. The first bullet is likely to be decisive either way, so the fact that he can kill you harder than you can kill him is comically meaningless. The cop likely had a bulletproof vest, reducing the rifle's advantage down to nothing.
Conversely, the kid has to keep shooting (or risk being tackled), constantly giving away his position to a cop he has no idea is there, and making it easy to get the drop on him. Because his rifle is longer he is more likely to give you advance warning when turning corners. It's easier to ambush someone when going through doors with a handgun and harder to defend with a rifle. Etc.
The cop was a coward. About the only real risk was getting hit by a stray bullet, something that can just as easily happen while you sit outside pretending to guard that really dangerous wall until some actual men show up.
This time we got luckier, in some sick sense, because the survivors can speak, and speak well, too, a considerable advantage over the survivors of Sandy Hook. Not that being a victim magically changes students into experts on eliminating gun violence. It does make them powerful spokespeople for demanding fixes from those they turn to looking for that expertise."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Psychic Missile View PostCare to elaborate on your second point?
(Click on the chart to make it big enough to actually read)
gun deaths.JPG
Meanwhile, gun deaths aren't even counted the same country to country. In this report to the U.K. Parliament, we find that since 1967, England and Wales do not count gun deaths which do not result in a conviction...that rules out all suicides, deaths by Police and all unsolved homicides in their homicide rates.
(Part II) 35. Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent. The adjustment is made only in respect of figures shown in one part of the Annual Criminal Statistics. In another part relating to the use of firearms, no adjustment is made. A table of the number of homicides in which firearms were used in England and Wales will therefore differ according to which section of the annual statistics was used as its base. Similarly in statistics relating to the use of firearms, a homicide will be recorded where the firearm was used as a blunt instrument, but in the specific homicide statistics, that case will be shown under "blunt instrument"
Finally, we can see from these chart that the ban on firearms did not reduce the homicide rate at all, it's just now stabilizing around it's the same number as the pre-ban rate:
UK homicides.JPG
And 12 years after the ban, they actually increased for 12 years. The gun death rates finally have fallen below the pre-ban numbers...that's a long time for correlation to explain...
UK gun deaths.JPGLast edited by Littlejoe; 02-25-2018, 11:37 PM."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe guy appears to be melting down - he obviously needs to resign. He's insisting he has given excellent leadership.
The Sheriff needs to take responsibility for his department and the officers under him. It is the honorable thing to do.
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He was extremely popular sheriff winning re-election in 2016 by the largest margin in over 30 years but I doubt he would win right now.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostHe was extremely popular sheriff winning re-election in 2016 by the largest margin in over 30 years but I doubt he would win right now.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostWell, at least according to Wikipedia...(yeah I know) the US is 11th on the list of gun related deaths...yet every single country ahead of them has a drastically lower guns per capita. Jamaica has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and it's gun related death rate is 3 times that in the US.
(Click on the chart to make it big enough to actually read)
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26633[/ATTACH]
Meanwhile, gun deaths aren't even counted the same country to country. In this report to the U.K. Parliament, we find that since 1967, England and Wales do not count gun deaths which do not result in a conviction...that rules out all suicides, deaths by Police and all unsolved homicides in their homicide rates.
(Part II) 35. Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent. The adjustment is made only in respect of figures shown in one part of the Annual Criminal Statistics. In another part relating to the use of firearms, no adjustment is made. A table of the number of homicides in which firearms were used in England and Wales will therefore differ according to which section of the annual statistics was used as its base. Similarly in statistics relating to the use of firearms, a homicide will be recorded where the firearm was used as a blunt instrument, but in the specific homicide statistics, that case will be shown under "blunt instrument"
Finally, we can see from these chart that the ban on firearms did not reduce the homicide rate at all, it's just now stabilizing around it's the same number as the pre-ban rate:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26634[/ATTACH]
And 12 years after the ban, they actually increased for 12 years. The gun death rates finally have fallen below the pre-ban numbers...that's a long time for correlation to explain...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26635[/ATTACH]
The UK has both tight firearms restrictions and a very low rate of firearms-related homicides, so they are a good example of what happens when there are fewer guns to go around. That handgun ban was very limited in scope. Very few people in the UK had handguns prior to the ban, so of course there shouldn't be a significant reduction in firearms-related deaths, let alone homicides period.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostWell, at least according to Wikipedia...(yeah I know) the US is 11th on the list of gun related deaths...yet every single country ahead of them has a drastically lower guns per capita. Jamaica has some of the strictest gun laws in the world and it's gun related death rate is 3 times that in the US.
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