The Concept of Privilege

[Cow Poke]

You didn't say you wrote "life isn't fair" you said you wrote "I'm not fair".

Correct - because I was teaching the concept that life is not fair. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?

That makes it relatively hard to reinterpret as you teaching them that were injustices in the world that they could aspire to fix when they grew up.

You could have asked, instead of jumping to goofy conclusions.

[demi-conservative]

Let's rewind a bit and remember carpedm thinks that your parents taking care of you and performing their duty to make sure you grow up to be a normal, healthy, functioning adult is a privilege that needs fixing.

Since I never said ANY of that, I have no other response (but this one).

Let's see post #1 of this thread!

Sometimes, the "privilege" is nothing more or less than a circumstance. My parents stayed married, and I had both of them throughout my youth, and through to my mid-fifties. They were not rich, but I was never hungry, never truly lacked for any need, had my health seen to, and had a comfortable (though small) and safe home. Although I was born with two fairly serious physical defects, my parents had the contacts to deal with them medically, and the healthcare coverage (due to their jobs) to pay for it. These are forms of privilege that are "circumstances" for which I am grateful, and that gratitude is part of why I find myself wanting to find an help those who did not find themselves with those kinds of circumstantial privileges.

Sad!

[demi-conservative]

You are correct, I do not. I do not think the privileges I enjoy should be torn down - I think they should be avaiable to everyone. If that were to happen, they would cease to be a privilege and would simply be "business as usual."

You are in larval stage, idealistic. Developed stage is to realize that they cannot be 'available to everyone' in current system, then decide to tear down.

It's like larval commies 'I just want people to be equalwhy can't we all be equal??!?!?!?!' Then they realize not possible, and decide to tear down existing system in violent revolution.

Many such cases!

[demi-conservative]

And when the unfairness is systemic - it needs to be addressed, not "gotten used to."

Why?

[demi-conservative]

That makes it relatively hard to reinterpret as you teaching them that were injustices in the world that they could aspire to fix when they grew up.

Do you libs actually teach kids of yours that? No wonder so messed up. Sad!

[Mountain Man]

It only needs to be addressed if it's artificial. Otherwise it may or may not be unfair but it's not unjust.

As the saying goes, equal opportunity does not guarantee equal outcomes.

[Sparko]

We have all experienced times where different races in one family creates confusion. What you describe has also happened to us on several occasions. When the children don't look like the parents, people justifiably seek verification. This has nothing to do with that. This is children out alone with no parent around to compare. And it is repeatable - ALL parents I have spoken to with black children, report the same thing, whether the parent is white or black.

There are MANY places in our culture and our society where, simply having black or white skin confers an advantage or disadvantage. It can go either way - but the vast majority break in favor of people with white skin. It is not absolute - it is not universal - but many are absolutely systemic.

Examples are not evidence.

[Sparko]

They do to you, MM. As far as I can tell, you are the only one making this objection. That you feel a need to focus your angst on my choice of language, rather than the core message (which it seems you actually understand), says a good deal about you. I leave you to your assumptions.

Have you been paying attention in this thread? We have all been saying that "White Privilege" is nothing but a liberal guilt trip and used as a weapon to club certain groups like White Males over the head accusing them of being racists or not caring about other races and thinking they are better than other groups. THAT is the core message of "privilege". Now as we have said, YOU might not be using it that way, but that is precisely how most liberals use it. I even gave you several examples of such which you promptly "condemned" and then dismissed.

[carpedm9587]

Examples are not evidence.

The usual statement is "an example is not an argument." It is also true that "examples are not arguments" in isolation. Examples are certainly evidence, but what they are evidence for is weak-to-meaningless if you have a single example, and stronger when you have a pattern of them. What we have been discussing (or at least what I have been discussing) is a pattern of examples and several studies that deal with them. I would accept that as evidence for the conclusion.

[Cow Poke]

We have all experienced times where different races in one family creates confusion. What you describe has also happened to us on several occasions. When the children don't look like the parents, people justifiably seek verification. This has nothing to do with that. This is children out alone with no parent around to compare. And it is repeatable - ALL parents I have spoken to with black children, report the same thing, whether the parent is white or black.

Do you initiate the racial part of the discussion? Is that ALL you discuss? I mean... it seems like you are, to an extent, race-centric.

[carpedm9587]

Have you been paying attention in this thread? We have all been saying that "White Privilege" is nothing but a liberal guilt trip and used as a weapon to club certain groups like White Males over the head accusing them of being racists or not caring about other races and thinking they are better than other groups. THAT is the core message of "privilege". Now as we have said, YOU might not be using it that way, but that is precisely how most liberals use it. I even gave you several examples of such which you promptly "condemned" and then dismissed.

Yes, my statement to MM was wrong. He's not the only one. There are indeed several of you and I wrote without thinking.

And I have, Sparko, acknowledged that there ARE people out there who run around screaming "racism" too often and without justification. I have even noted, on multiple occasions, this is a tendency of many on the left. I have also said, over and over again, that privilege is not limited to any given race, any given gender, etc., etc. But for many of you, rather than discussing the issue of how we tackle injustices born systemic bias in our culture, you seem to want to spend all of your time focused on the fact that I had the audacity, at some point, to couple the word "privilege" with the word "white," despite the fact that I have also coupled it with "black" and "female" and "heterosexual" and several other words.

It would be nice, just for kicks and grins, if people could spend a little time on the issue being discussed, and not their outrage at one coupling that is giving them heartburn. And, amazingly enough, nobody seemed to object to "black privilege," "female privilege," or the other instances of privilege I referenced. Apparently, the outrage will only end when I repent of coupling "white" and "privilege." I probably won't. Each of us has a high probability, in this culture, of experiencing privileges that are rooted in are race, gender, ethnicity, etc. - many of which we go through each day unaware of. I believe awareness is the first step towards changing that situation. White privilege exists. So does black privilege. So does female privilege, male privilege, heterosexual privilege, homosexual privilege, etc., etc. When that privilege creates a systemic injustice, it needs to be brought into the light and addressed, as in the examples I put forward in this thread.

If people see that as offensive - so be it. They will have to be offended. I have not accused any one person of racism and never will - until and unless they do/say something that is overtly racist. After 20 years, I have learned how to tell the difference between something that is overtly racist, and something that reflects racial differences but is not rooted in racism.

[carpedm9587]

Everybody faces inequalities in life. That's the point. The problem with trying to "fix" them is that it's far too easy to trample on the rights of the "privileged" simply because it's easier to tear someone down than it is to build them up, and so much of liberal policy is designed to tear people down in the name of "equality".

I never said anything about trying to make everyone equal in every way, so I have no response. You'r enot responding to anything I actually said.

[Cow Poke]

...You'r enot....

That has been happening to me a LOT lately -- maybe because I type so fast, but the last letter of one word jumps over to the beginning of the next!

[carpedm9587]

Why do you do this? There are CERTAINLY places and situations where it works, and there are always exceptions. It does NOT completely discount....

I found it to be, CP. If you look at the pattern of this thread, the trend is for people to take an "offense" position against what I have been saying, and your "suck it up" comment certainly fit that pattern.

Yes, there are whiners in this world that need to get off their but and get moving. There are leaders that lead by example. There are people who have overcome the systemic injustices and risen to greatness. Then there are the vast numbers who are beaten down by it on a regular basis. We should celebrate the former, and we should address the problems that create the latter. You spoke to one half of that equation - which comes across as a dismissal of the other half.

[Mountain Man]

I once worked at a TV station that hired a part-time sales intern who looked like a supermodel. Within six-months, she was the top sales associate. Working part-time! Ugly sales people couldn't keep up, so what should have been done to mitigate the intern's unfair advantage? Reduce her commission? Redistribute her commission to the less attractive staff? Reduce her work hours? Demand that she put on an additional 200-pounds?

Let's hear some solutions, people, because this injustice should not have been allowed to stand!