The Concept of Privilege

[Mountain Man]

The fact that the meaning of words as they are in use change, in no way implies relativism of any kind. If you believe that, then you'd have to believe that C.S Lewis was a relativist, because he said that the word 'gentleman' no longer referred to a man belonging to the English gentry, but later referred to any man of good, courteous conduct.

In other words, welcome to Etymology 101 Mountain Man. It's a fascinating world.

So the term "white supremacy" can arbitrarily have a positive connotation if that's how I happen to intend it at a given moment?

Sorry, but language doesn't work that way.

[Starlight]

So the term "white supremacy" can arbitrarily have a positive connotation if that's how I happen to intend it at a given moment?

Sorry, but language doesn't work that way.

Language works via a shared understanding of the meanings. You personally don't get to change meanings, but society's shared understanding of the word can gradually change over time.

[Mountain Man]

Language works via a shared understanding of the meanings. You personally don't get to change meanings, but society's shared understanding of the word can gradually change over time.

I hope carpe is paying attention.

[Joel]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ca...mplicit/238807
"Can we really measure implicit bias? Maybe Not."

https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/psych...o-the-job.html

(Incidentally when I took the test it said I was slightly biased in favor of black people.)

[carpedm9587]

So the term "white supremacy" can arbitrarily have a positive connotation if that's how I happen to intend it at a given moment?

Sorry, but language doesn't work that way.

Umm...no. But "white privilege" does NOT mean that all white people experience it, that they all experience it to the same degree, that they all experience it in the same way, that they experience it across all aspects of their lives, or that white people never have the opposite of privilege (whatever word we're using for that). "White privilege" refers to nothing more than those privileges that are experienced that are a function of skin color (in this case white) and nothing more. The term "black privilege" doesn't typically surface, but the reality is there. Unfortunately, in the U.S., when there is privilege, it is more often experienced by white people and males than it is by other races or females. Again - that does not mean other races and females don't have "privilege" and it doesn't mean everyone is the same. This is a statistical statement equivalent to noting that old people tend to have less hair than young people.

[carpedm9587]

I hope carpe is paying attention.

He is. Has been from the outset.

[carpedm9587]

https://www.chronicle.com/article/Ca...mplicit/238807
"Can we really measure implicit bias? Maybe Not."

https://www.thecut.com/2017/01/psych...o-the-job.html

(Incidentally when I took the test it said I was slightly biased in favor of black people.)

I have seen those - and some of the comments are valid. It is actually possible to skew the test (i.e., by intentionally taking longer to answer questions that lack cognitive dissonance). It is also possible to perform better on the tests through practice, which is one of the reasons being suggested for different follow-on results. There is also another possibility that has been floated: like the Myers Brigs and personality profile tests, these tests are a snapshot in time. A bad experience with someone of a different race just before one test, and a seminar on "implicit bias" can change the individual's response times.

I do not believe this is an exact science by any means. Your articles (which I had not seen, so thanks for sharing them) point to some concerns, especially on the bias-to-behavior front and repeatability. The first article suggests there is significant back-and-forth in this field (akin to climate science), but the second (which describes the r-measurements) was particularly enlightening. Clearly, more work needs to be done and a truly objective measurement of implicit bias is not yet there.

My experience, a bit of common-sense reasoning, and the current state of our nation tell me that racism and implicit bias remain a problem for all of us. But I have to admit that I placed more confidence in that one tool for measuring it than perhaps it warranted.

Thanks for broadening my world a bit.

[Darth Executor]

I have seen those - and some of the comments are valid. It is actually possible to skew the test (i.e., by intentionally taking longer to answer questions that lack cognitive dissonance). It is also possible to perform better on the tests through practice, which is one of the reasons being suggested for different follow-on results. There is also another possibility that has been floated: like the Myers Brigs and personality profile tests, these tests are a snapshot in time. A bad experience with someone of a different race just before one test, and a seminar on "implicit bias" can change the individual's response times.

I do not believe this is an exact science by any means. Your articles (which I had not seen, so thanks for sharing them) point to some concerns, especially on the bias-to-behavior front and repeatability. The first article suggests there is significant back-and-forth in this field (akin to climate science), but the second (which describes the r-measurements) was particularly enlightening. Clearly, more work needs to be done and a truly objective measurement of implicit bias is not yet there.

My experience, a bit of common-sense reasoning, and the current state of our nation tell me that racism and implicit bias remain a problem for all of us. But I have to admit that I placed more confidence in that one tool for measuring it than perhaps it warranted.

Thanks for broadening my world a bit.

Implicit bias is only a problem if you think rational thought is a problem given that discrimination is a key component of the latter.

[demi-conservative]

That does not make every unequal treatment moral.

Don't avoid point!

Lots of unequal treatment is moral!!

[Starlight]

Lots of unequal treatment is moral!!

Like affirmative action...

[demi-conservative]

Like affirming Christians

Fixed!!!

[Sparko]

The fact that the meaning of words as they are in use change, in no way implies relativism of any kind. If you believe that, then you'd have to believe that C.S Lewis was a relativist, because he said that the word 'gentleman' no longer referred to a man belonging to the English gentry, but later referred to any man of good, courteous conduct.

In other words, welcome to Etymology 101 Mountain Man. It's a fascinating world.

Sure, but you personally can't just make up your own meanings and expect everyone to accept them.

You Leonhard are a complete twit. And by "twit" I mean a gentlemen of course.

[Cow Poke]

The question is - what's the object of the exercise? Is it to proudly use my own language, and the heck with everybody else? Or is the object to communicate clearly and effectively.

[Mountain Man]

Umm...no. But "white privilege" does NOT mean that all white people experience it, that they all experience it to the same degree, that they all experience it in the same way, that they experience it across all aspects of their lives, or that white people never have the opposite of privilege (whatever word we're using for that). "White privilege" refers to nothing more than those privileges that are experienced that are a function of skin color (in this case white) and nothing more. The term "black privilege" doesn't typically surface, but the reality is there. Unfortunately, in the U.S., when there is privilege, it is more often experienced by white people and males than it is by other races or females. Again - that does not mean other races and females don't have "privilege" and it doesn't mean everyone is the same. This is a statistical statement equivalent to noting that old people tend to have less hair than young people.

Yes, how silly of us to think that the term "white privilege" is an indictment against white people.

It has always been a nasty, divisive, racist term that promotes class warfare and jealously of those who's circumstances happen to differ from yours (poignantly illustrated by that stupid track running exercise with its "If you're white, take two steps forward" BS), and attempts by liberals to spin it as something neutral and non-provocative are disingenuous at best. Anybody who tries to shut down debate by saying "That's just your white privilege talking" should be treated with contempt because the notion of "white privilege" is nothing more than a re-branding of failed Marxist ideologies.

[Roy]

From here:

I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.

1. I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
3. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
4. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
5. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
6. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
7. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
8. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
9. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
10. I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.

11. I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person's voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
12. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
13. Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
14. Ican arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
15. I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
16. I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.
17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.
25. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
26. I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
27. I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
28. I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
29. I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
30. If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

31. I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
32. My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
33. I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
34. I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
35. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
36. If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
37. I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
38. I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
39. I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
40. I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

41. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
42. I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
43. If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
44. I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
45. I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
46. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color and have them more or less match my skin.
47. I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
48. I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
49. My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
50. I will feel welcomed and "normal" in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.