Review of the Russian collusion narrative

[rogue06]

Starting the new year the National Review offers an evaluation of the investigation emphasizing the New York Times' role in helping to push it and how they've changed their tune.

Source: As the Dossier Scandal Looms, the New York Times Struggles to Save Its Collusion Tale

The totality of the evidence undermines the collusion narrativeNew York Timesthe dossier is partisan propagandaFrom the Russia trip of the once-obscure Mr. Page grew a wide-ranging investigation, now accompanied by two congressional inquiries, that has cast a shadow over the early months of the Trump administration" [emphasis added].

Oh sure, the TimesPapadopoulos



Source

© Copyright Original Source

The story continues at the link above.

[Zymologist]

I only have one question: Does Putin pay by the word?

[Cow Poke]

[One Bad Pig]

Are you trolling for Jerks?

[Mountain Man]

Liberals are desperate to keep this story alive. It's their only hope of stopping Trump.

[Starlight]

Liberals are desperate to keep this story alive. It's their only hope of stopping Trump.

As a liberal I'm happy for Trump to stay around until 2020 as his historic low approval ratings will greatly assist even incompetent Dems in taking back the house and even senate in 2018, and should give the Dems supermajorities in 2020.

I'm also a bit frightened of what ultra fundy evangelical Mike Pence could do the country in terms of enacting an extreme religious agenda if he were made president.

On the other hand it seems increasingly clear that Trump's administration is very criminal in nature and that Mueller is likely to indict half of it, likely including Trump. (The amusingly shrill denials of reality coming from the right, like the OP, notwithstanding) I believe it's particularly important for nobody to be above the law and I think the US has an unfortunate history (from Nixon to Reagan to Bush W to Wall St) of allowing powerful people to avoid prison for criminal behaviour simply because they are powerful. So I would like to see the guilty punished in this instance to break that trend.

So I'm torn between being happy to see the Dems skate to massive victories in 2018 and 2020 and wanting justice to be done.

[myth]

As a liberal I'm happy for Trump to stay around until 2020 as his historic low approval ratings will greatly assist even incompetent Dems in taking back the house and even senate in 2018, and should give the Dems supermajorities in 2020.

I'm also a bit frightened of what ultra fundy evangelical Mike Pence could do the country in terms of enacting an extreme religious agenda if he were made president.

On the other hand it seems increasingly clear that Trump's administration is very criminal in nature and that Mueller is likely to indict half of it, likely including Trump. (The amusingly shrill denials of reality coming from the right, like the OP, notwithstanding) I believe it's particularly important for nobody to be above the law and I think the US has an unfortunate history (from Nixon to Reagan to Bush W to Wall St) of allowing powerful people to avoid prison for criminal behaviour simply because they are powerful. So I would like to see the guilty punished in this instance to break that trend.

So I'm torn between being happy to see the Dems skate to massive victories in 2018 and 2020 and wanting justice to be done.

As much as I dislike Trump, I doubt he'll be charged with anything. The FBI won't pull the trigger on charging a sitting president unless they've got one heck of a case, and I doubt they're going to find evidence of that quality, even if Trump did something illegal.

The fact that you refer to Pence as an "ultra fundy" is also amusing to me. He's more middle-right in my estimation.

[Cerebrum123]

As much as I dislike Trump, I doubt he'll be charged with anything. The FBI won't pull the trigger on charging a sitting president unless they've got one heck of a case, and I doubt they're going to find evidence of that quality, even if Trump did something illegal.

The fact that you refer to Pence as an "ultra fundy" is also amusing to me. He's more middle-right in my estimation.

I believe Starlight has called Obama "center right" so it's not surprising to see this description of Pence.

[myth]

I believe Starlight has called Obama "center right" so it's not surprising to see this description of Pence.

Obama, center-right? I nearly spat out my drink.

[Cerebrum123]

Obama, center-right? I nearly spat out my drink.

Not surprising, Starlight's comments tend to have that effect on most of us.

[Terraceth]

On the other hand it seems increasingly clear that Trump's administration is very criminal in nature and that Mueller is likely to indict half of it, likely including Trump. (The amusingly shrill denials of reality coming from the right, like the OP, notwithstanding)

I don't see any particular denials of reality. I'll readily admit the possibility he might be sitting on a mountain of evidence and is trying to take things slowly to make sure he entraps the guilty properly, but if so, that information is limited to him and his team as there hasn't been any indication of that. For as much as the liberal media has tried to play the story up, so far the only charges Mueller has brought forward are things that are actually unrelated to any supposed collusion.

[Starlight]

Obama, center-right?

Yes. The fact that the conservatives on this forum don't see that is just another indication of how insanely FAR right you guys are.

As governor of Indiana, Pence led the way in ultra restrictive abortion legislation (including forcing women to bury their fetuses, forcing them to undergo incredibly invasive transvaginal ultrasounds before getting abortions) and iirc was the first state to pass modern anti-gay legislation (dressed up as a 'religious freedom's act).

[Tassman]

I don't see any particular denials of reality. I'll readily admit the possibility he might be sitting on a mountain of evidence and is trying to take things slowly to make sure he entraps the guilty properly, but if so, that information is limited to him and his team as there hasn't been any indication of that. For as much as the liberal media has tried to play the story up, so far the only charges Mueller has brought forward are things that are actually unrelated to any supposed collusion.

Mueller is conducting a bona fide investigation, not engaging in "entrapment", but your use of this term is indicative of your mindset. He might indeed be "sitting on a mountain of evidence", he probably is. Until he has completed his investigation is is premature for the likes of you and the conservatives to second-guess the outcome and declare there is nothing there or that his findings are unrelated to " any supposed collusion". This is just wishful thinking.

[Terraceth]

Mueller is conducting a bona fide investigation, not engaging in "entrapment", but your use of this term is indicative of your mindset.

In what way is me using that term 'indicative of my mindset'? I used that term because my original phrase, "tightens the noose properly," was a little too associated with hanging. I guess it's indicative of the fact I don't like hanging people but I'm not sure how that's relevant.

Apparently you think I was somehow insinuating that he was engaging in entrapment (i.e. the process of inducing someone to commit a crime), but that's not only an utterly bizarre interpretation based on the context, I didn't even write "entrapment."

He might indeed be "sitting on a mountain of evidence", he probably is. Until he has completed his investigation is is premature for the likes of you and the conservatives to second-guess the outcome and declare there is nothing there or that his findings are unrelated to " any supposed collusion". This is just wishful thinking.

If it's premature for people to second-guess the outcome, then it's equally premature for people to assume that it'll result in big indictments against critical members of the Trump administration.

[myth]

Yes. The fact that the conservatives on this forum don't see that is just another indication of how insanely FAR right you guys are.

As governor of Indiana, Pence led the way in ultra restrictive abortion legislation (including forcing women to bury their fetuses, forcing them to undergo incredibly invasive transvaginal ultrasounds before getting abortions) and iirc was the first state to pass modern anti-gay legislation (dressed up as a 'religious freedom's act).

Am I in the Twilight Zone? Do we mean the same thing we using the term "right" in regard to political spectrum in the US? Because I have no idea how you think Obama is center right, implying that he's to the right of center in the US political spectrum (aka slightly conservative).

Check out this Washington Post article, that spends all its time talking about exactly how liberal Obama is. Note, the question in the article isn't whether he's liberal or conservative, but exactly how liberal he is. Apparently the Washington Post didn't ask if he was on the right or left wing because it's exceedingly obvious which side he's on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e131c82440d5

With regard to Mr. Pence, I assume you won't be surprised to hear that I'm for "ultra strict" abortion policies, namely that it should be outlawed, since I'm not a fan of murder. And you'll forgive me if I hesitate to assume your assessment of an "anti-gay legislation" is accurate, seeing as how you're so liberal that you think a liberal president is a flipping conservative.

Edit: The problem with calling Pence and people on this forum "FAR right" is that (in addition to the fact that it's not all that accurate) is that' you're not leaving any room in the labeling vernacular for the people who actually are further right than we are. And believe me, there are plenty of people to the right of the average Twebber.