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Supreme Court allows full enforcement of Trump travel ban
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You didn't like referring back to the earlier thread?Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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I think the travel ban is a waste of everyone's time. It's a band-aid in the wrong place and it doesn't fix the underlying problem (the Wall proposal is similar).
The underlying problem is two-fold: That the US immigration system is bizarre and needs reorganizing and updating for the modern world; and you're getting a lot of people flying into the country and then overstaying their visas and thus becoming illegal immigrants.
The correct solution to the first problem is to overhaul the immigration system to be a "points based" system like other OECD countries, whereby potential immigrants get points for things like quality of English spoken and written, education level, wealth or business experience, coming from a culturally similar country to the US, and they can add up their points and if they meet the current threshold they're in (and your government then tweaks the threshold to decrease or increase total immigration rate as desired).
The second problem has somewhat solved itself as the rate of illegal immigrants leaving the US over the past 10 years or so has been pretty much equal to the number entering, so you aren't currently being flooded with illegal immigrants, so whether you actually need to take action on it is questionable.
However, it's a pointless waste of money and time to do non-solutions such as building a Great Wall of Mexico that doesn't stop commercial airplane flights, and banning a handful of random countries that aren't the ones that terrorists who have attacked the US have come from. Those might make a few ignorant people feel good, but they don't do anything useful toward solving the actual problems."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostI think the travel ban is a waste of everyone's time.
You say that "the US immigration system is bizarre and needs reorganizing and updating for the modern world". Ironically, the primary reason we're in our current mess is because Ted Kennedy thought the same thing 50-years ago, and America has been suffering from that terrible legislative decision ever since. The best way to clean up our immigration system is to restore it to the way it was pre-1965 with strict limits placed on the quality and quantity of people allowed into the country, and to vigorously enforce the law against those who enter illegally.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe best way to clean up our immigration system is to restore it to the way it was pre-1965 with strict limits placed on the quality and quantity of people allowed into the country, and to vigorously enforce the law against those who enter illegally.
Though honestly, your immigration rate is so low anyway (my country's is 3 times higher per capita, and you have heeeeeeaaaaaapppsss of land area) that the whole thing is relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. The US has sooooo many more pressing issues that are way more important than immigration: e.g. homelessness; lack of healthcare-for-all; lead in the water supplies; absurdly high imprisonment rates; lack of law enforcement for fraudsters on Wall St; absurd amounts of "defense" spending attacking random countries around the world and killing civilians and destabilizing entire regions of the world and inspiring terrorism; absurdly high amounts of political corruption so the politicians do what the lobbyists want rather than what the people want; lack of infrastructure spending; police stealing more people's money than burglars do ("civil forfeiture"); police shooting people at the drop of a hat including children, naked people running away from them, and a woman in pajamas who'd called them; gun deaths being so prolific that on average a toddler shoots a person a week; climate change etc. While I loosely agree with you on immigration and loosely agree with you as to what the correct policy solutions are, it pales in comparison to the US's urgent issues and is literally probably around item number 30 in any prioritized list of things the US needs to fix.
However, insofar as immigration is an issue, and insofar as Trump is taking action on it, he's currently taking the wrong actions on it which don't solve the issues."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Apart from maybe a moral victory, I have a problem with this. The travel ban was meant to be a temporary thing whilst better vetting methods were put into place (6 weeks or something like that wasn't it). Now a year later, those better vetting methods should be in place and the Travel Ban should be irrelevant.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou didn't like referring back to the earlier thread?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostThe travel ban was meant to be a temporary thing whilst better vetting methods were put into place (6 weeks or something like that wasn't it). Now a year later, those better vetting methods should be in place and the Travel Ban should be irrelevant."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostApart from maybe a moral victory, I have a problem with this. The travel ban was meant to be a temporary thing whilst better vetting methods were put into place (6 weeks or something like that wasn't it). Now a year later, those better vetting methods should be in place and the Travel Ban should be irrelevant.
2. Getting things done expediently.
Pick one.
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI thought you meant an earlier thread about the SCOTUS decision. So, yes, I didn't like referring to the EARLIER earlier thread about the travel ban. I thought this was worth its own thread.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Terraceth View Post1. US government
2. Getting things done expediently.
Pick one.
In particular, I would suggest, it is a result of both: An extremely corrupt political system because your country has allowed politicians to fully sell-out to lobbyists and the Republican party consistently votes 100% against any attempts at constitutional change designed to reduce corruption; and a result of Republican determination to break and sabotage government in order to try to convince the populace that government can't work and hence further their general goal of letting the rich get richer by screwing over the working people, the poor, and the environment and removing all government rules and regulations that would protect those groups from the rich and powerful (basically government is what's stopping the rich from pillaging the country, so they want to break government).
Of course, some of the US government failure is inherent in its poor design structure. The Founding Fathers were trying to come up with a system that seemed good to them in the 18th century, and they didn't have a lot of empirical data to work from, and they wanted 'checks and balances'. Unfortunately the system they came up with is pretty unwieldy and other countries that have tried copying it have had their governments grind to a gridlocked halt and collapse. The US has seemed on the brink of that this last decade with government shutdowns and no legislation being able to pass due to political gridlock etc. Other countries over the last couple of centuries have developed much more effective governmental systems, and the consensus of political scientists seems to be now that parliamentary systems (e.g. the UK, NZ, Australia, Canada) are better in general than presidential systems on numerous grounds. But the difficulty of changing the US Constitution, and the reluctance of entrenched political interests to ever change the system that brought them into power in the first place, seems likely to mean that the US won't be able to redesign its government short of a country-devastating political crisis... even a civil war didn't manage it last time.Last edited by Starlight; 12-04-2017, 08:30 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostApart from maybe a moral victory, I have a problem with this. The travel ban was meant to be a temporary thing whilst better vetting methods were put into place (6 weeks or something like that wasn't it). Now a year later, those better vetting methods should be in place and the Travel Ban should be irrelevant.
I think the window for the travel ban has passed though, so I doubt they will reinstate it. But this sets a precedent for the next time. It won't be possible for some federal judge to just block it on a whim next time.
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