Should Al Franken Resign?

[Cerebrum123]

You picked bad examples. Most of us would agree those are unnecessary and hurtful. "Retard" more so than "imbecile". In fact, one of our denominational leaders made a comment in an email recently, after being corrected on a wrong date he included in a previous email, "Yes, my bad - I had a retard moment".

I hesitated to jump on him, because I figured others would. The best response came from another pastor who said, "Brother, I know you meant nothing by it, but Sandy and I have a son with 'intellectual disabilities', and this would be a great disappointment to him". (and, yes, others "replied all" with polite reprimands)

From what I understand "retarded" was originally a medical diagnosis, that later became used as an insult. Same with idiot, and imbecile if I'm remembering right. They just cycle in a new word, set of words every so often. The new one will become the new "insult" shortly after it is accepted, and the cycle will continue.

Edit. As someone who is disabled I think it is idiotic to be using terms like "differently abled" or some other nonsense. It might make certain people "feel better", but all it is is an attempt to whitewash reality.

[carpedm9587]

Pretty soon even "Happy Holidays" will be thrown out because holidays really means "holy days".

From Barnhart's Dictionary of Etymology:

Old English had a concurrent open compound halig daeg, found later in Middle English holy day, which became modern English holiday, meaning both a religious festival and a day of recreation. This eventually replaced the earlier form haliday, leaving two forms holiday and holy day.

[carpedm9587]

From what I understand "retarded" was originally a medical diagnosis, that later became used as an insult. Same with idiot, and imbecile if I'm remembering right. They just cycle in a new word, set of words every so often. The new one will become the new "insult" shortly after it is accepted, and the cycle will continue.

Unfortunately, you may well be right...

[Sparko]

I know, Adrift. That's my point. Because "dis" is associated with disrespect (insult), there is a growing consensus that "disable" evokes that idea and the word should shift. It also focuses on the lack of ability, rather than affirming the ability. As with many such shifts, this one is starting with the community that most closely works with these people. I was awakened to it by a special educator. When my own son was diagnosed with learning challenges, I began to realize just how it impacted me when someone called him "disabled." I was surprised to find that I could not get him on a 504 or IEP unless an evaluation of him was written, and that word HAD to be used - by law. The school accused me of "denying he had a need" because I was advocating for them to stop using that term about (but especially around) my son. I could see the impact it had on him, each time someone used that word about him in his hearing. I saw the tears - I heard the pain he expressed.

Until I had that experience, I never thought twice about "disabled." Now that I have had the experience, I am a strong advocate for shifting the language. To many, I have crossed over to "politically correct." I am the "word nazi." To me - I am a father looking to minimize the pain my son is experiencing, and doesn't have to experience, if people would just be a bit more careful about what words they use.

So when someone comes to me, today, and tells me that something about my language is hurting someone else - I pay attention. I don't dismiss them as "PC." I look for the human being that is expressing hurt, and look for what I can do, without really harming myself in any way, to help them with that hurt. Changing a word here and there is simply not too big a price to pay.

wait, so YOU are the one who is having a problem with the word "disabled" - not society which you claimed earlier? You made it sound like the word "disabled" is now offensive and they want to come up with some other word, but in fact it is YOU who is offended and want to change it while everyone else apparently does not.

Carpe, NOBODY wants to be thought of as "disabled" no matter what word you come up with. You can come up with any PC word you want, "differently-abled" "handicapped" "functionally different" - whatever. People will still not want to be defined as different than normal. It is embarrassing to them. You can't fix that with words.

[carpedm9587]

wait, so YOU are the one who is having a problem with the word "disabled" - not society which you claimed earlier? You made it sound like the word "disabled" is now offensive and they want to come up with some other word, but in fact it is YOU who is offended and want to change it while everyone else apparently does not.

Carpe, NOBODY wants to be thought of as "disabled" no matter what word you come up with. You can come up with any PC word you want, "differently-abled" "handicapped" "functionally different" - whatever. People will still not want to be defined as different than normal. It is embarrassing to them. You can't fix that with words.

Actually - I used the word "disabled" as an example of a word that is in the midst of a similar change. Most of the community that supports this population has already shifted away from it. Families in this community have widely shifted away from it. Now it is percolating out into the larger society, a little at a time. Those who have adopted the language shift no longer see it as "PC" - those who have not continue to label it as "PC." This is what I meant earlier by assessing "PC" as a term that is variable and generally reflects "things I don't want to hear/do"

And you are right about your assessment of people not wanting to see themselves as "less capable." But words CAN make a difference. If we are going to encourage people to maximize their potential, whatever that may be, it seems to me that language that focuses on what they ARE able to do is better and stronger and more enabling than language that focuses on what they are NOT able to do. That does not deny the limitation (any more than I deny that my son has some significant challenges on a learning front), but history is full of people who rose above and transcended those challenges through sheer force of will. I'd rather affirm what someone CAN achieve and encourage them to reach for it, then beat them over the head with what they cannot achieve.

It's a personal preference, but one I encourage others to consider. No one is saying that people cannot use the word "disabled" if they insist on it. It is entirely their choice. Knowing its impact, if someone does that regularly, despite what I have shared here, I probably would not consider them a close friend, probably would not want them to be around my home much (because of the potential for harm to my son), and it would tell me a little about them as a person. But I certainly am not going to go out and require them to use another word or be jailed. I WILL advocate for the word to be removed from legal documents and other formal writing. And if that means I have to deal with being called "PC" - so be it. It's the price to pay for advocating for something I think is worthwhile and makes all of us just a little bit better.

[Cow Poke]

Many times Liberals use PC as a distraction and a club. Rather than taking a topic head on, they will focus on a term and claim they (or some other group) is being offended by it. It is a passive-aggressive way of turning the tables on their opponent and attacking their character rather than dealing with the subject.

Like any excuse to label somebody racist so as to avoid the real issue. I still remember Ross Perot saying "you people", and everybody jumped on him for being racist.

[Sparko]

Actually - I used the word "disabled" as an example of a word that is in the midst of a similar change. Most of the community that supports this population has already shifted away from it. Families in this community have widely shifted away from it. Now it is percolating out into the larger society, a little at a time. Those who have adopted the language shift no longer see it as "PC" - those who have not continue to label it as "PC." This is what I meant earlier by assessing "PC" as a term that is variable and generally reflects "things I don't want to hear/do"

And you are right about your assessment of people not wanting to see themselves as "less capable." But words CAN make a difference. If we are going to encourage people to maximize their potential, whatever that may be, it seems to me that language that focuses on what they ARE able to do is better and stronger and more enabling than language that focuses on what they are NOT able to do. That does not deny the limitation (any more than I deny that my son has some significant challenges on a learning front), but history is full of people who rose above and transcended those challenges through sheer force of will. I'd rather affirm what someone CAN achieve and encourage them to reach for it, then beat them over the head with what they cannot achieve.

It's a personal preference, but one I encourage others to consider. No one is saying that people cannot use the word "disabled" if they insist on it. It is entirely their choice. Knowing its impact, if someone does that regularly, despite what I have shared here, I probably would not consider them a close friend, probably would not want them to be around my home much (because of the potential for harm to my son), and it would tell me a little about them as a person. But I certainly am not going to go out and require them to use another word or be jailed. I WILL advocate for the word to be removed from legal documents and other formal writing. And if that means I have to deal with being called "PC" - so be it. It's the price to pay for advocating for something I think is worthwhile and makes all of us just a little bit better.

Such advocating for the use of a term is PC but not the type we are generally talking about. I guess the difference is the motive behind it. When it is used as a weapon to claim offense against someone or some group in a pretense of defending another group. Like someone attacking Christians for saying "Merry Christmas" by claiming others are offended by this and you have to say "Happy Holidays" or "Season's Greetings" - the point isn't really about protecting the feelings of the other religions, it is about being able to claim that Christians are insensitive beasts who hate other religions and those without religion.

Personally I don't get offended if someone wishes me a Happy Hanukkah, Cheery Kwanzaa or whatever. I will say it right back to them. No need to be offended. To pretend to be offended by Merry Christmas is just a passive-aggressive ploy to attack someone.

[One Bad Pig]

I know, Adrift. That's my point. Because "dis" is associated with disrespect (insult), there is a growing consensus that "disable" evokes that idea and the word should shift. It also focuses on the lack of ability, rather than affirming the ability. As with many such shifts, this one is starting with the community that most closely works with these people. I was awakened to it by a special educator. When my own son was diagnosed with learning challenges, I began to realize just how it impacted me when someone called him "disabled." I was surprised to find that I could not get him on a 504 or IEP unless an evaluation of him was written, and that word HAD to be used - by law. The school accused me of "denying he had a need" because I was advocating for them to stop using that term about (but especially around) my son. I could see the impact it had on him, each time someone used that word about him in his hearing. I saw the tears - I heard the pain he expressed.

Until I had that experience, I never thought twice about "disabled." Now that I have had the experience, I am a strong advocate for shifting the language. To many, I have crossed over to "politically correct." I am the "word nazi." To me - I am a father looking to minimize the pain my son is experiencing, and doesn't have to experience, if people would just be a bit more careful about what words they use.

So when someone comes to me, today, and tells me that something about my language is hurting someone else - I pay attention. I don't dismiss them as "PC." I look for the human being that is expressing hurt, and look for what I can do, without really harming myself in any way, to help them with that hurt. Changing a word here and there is simply not too big a price to pay.

What you appear to be trying to do here is deny truth which hurts. Life IS pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling you something.

[Cow Poke]

From what I understand "retarded" was originally a medical diagnosis,

Correct, and even in music, it simply means "slow".

that later became used as an insult. Same with idiot, and imbecile if I'm remembering right. They just cycle in a new word, set of words every so often. The new one will become the new "insult" shortly after it is accepted, and the cycle will continue.

Edit. As someone who is disabled I think it is idiotic to be using terms like "differently abled" or some other nonsense. It might make certain people "feel better", but all it is is an attempt to whitewash reality.

Yeah, I generally just try to treat them like people. What a concept, eh?

[Cow Poke]

What you appear to be trying to do here is deny truth which hurts. Life IS pain. Anyone who tells you different is selling you something.

Like the "everybody gets a trophy" mentality. We are not preparing our kids for the fact that life is tough, there are, indeed, winners and losers, and you really need to apply yourself.

[Sparko]

I am not fat, I am gravitationally challenged.

[Mountain Man]

So give me an example of a debate that can be won (or has been won) by designating a word as "politically correct?"

One example that springs readily to mind: it was implicitly declared politically incorrect to refer to homosexuality as immoral. Homosexuals and their advocates didn't want to discuss right and wrong but only rights. Once certain parties conceded that point and refrained from discussing homosexuality on moral grounds, the debate swung in favor of homosexuals and their advocates, and they eventually won.

Abortion is another one: it's politically incorrect to refer to the fetus using any term that might humanize it. Once that hurdle is out of the way, the rest falls into place relatively easily.

Or in your case, trying to find "culturally appropriate" ways to wish someone a Merry Christmas, which seems to ignore the reason the holiday even exists in the first place.

Liberals learned a long time ago that if you can control the language then you can win any debate.

[guacamole]

Liberals learned a long time ago that if you can control the language then you can win any debate.

Just the liberals?

[Bill the Cat]

Just the liberals?

[Cow Poke]

I am not fat, I am gravitationally challenged.

A couple years ago, I had gained some weight, I said something about being fat. My youngest granddaughter hugged me and said, "Papa, you're not fat, you're fluffy!"