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Should Al Franken Resign?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think the media tends to be more liberal, and very aggressively goes after somebody like Moore, but Franken seems to get a pass (up till recently, anyway) because he issued a "cover my butt" apology.
So, yeah, the same standard should be applied to all, and the thing that really bothers me is this alleged slush fund that Washington DC biggies can draw on to pay off their accusers.
Franken issued an apology and called for an investigation, which reduced the "attractiveness" of the story. Indeed, it made the main story the unusual case of a public figure publicly apologizing and calling for an investigation of themselves. Was it a "cover his butt" apology, a clever political ploy, or a genuine/heartfelt apology? Making that judgment requires me to look into the heart of the man, and I cannot see into another man's heart. Until I have cause to do otherwise, I tend to take people at their word.
Moore, for example, has denied the charges against him. I wasn't there, and I do not know that Moore has a history of lying, so I have to suspend judgment. My issue with Moore (in terms of the accusations) is the way he has publicly attacked his accusers. My issue with Moore politically has to do with his disregard for our Constitution. Clinton is a different story. He has been accused by multiple people, but he has a history of sexually inappropriate action, has a history of lying to dodge accusations (and has been caught several times), and he publicly attacked his accusers. I think it is VERY likely he did what he was accused of, and I do not trust his denials. Trump was likewise accused. He has a history of lying, has published a book explicitly stating that he believes lying is appropriate if it gets him what he wants, is on tape bragging about being sexually abusive, and has said some amazingly inappropriate things throughout his career (on sexual themes). He clearly has a general attitude of entitlement and needs approval at every turn. He also attacked his accusers. I think the odds that he did what he was accused of is high, and his attack of his accusers is unacceptable.
The list goes on. Now perhaps you have cause to doubt Franken's denial, as I feel I have cause to doubt Trump and Clinton's denials. I simply do not. And yes, I have read the book with his observation about the political world running by different rules.
The slush funds are abyssmal. That they exist in our government, have existed in the entertainment industry, Fox, and multiple other venues is reprehensible. It is not so much the funds themselves - I DO think some restitution is due, monetary or otherwise. It is the requirement of secrecy for accepting the funds. And, in government, it is the use of my tax dollars to pay off abusers.Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-24-2017, 09:13 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI am familiar with the strong anti-mainstream-media bias from the right,
and I have to admit I think it is at play here. I have found the so-called mainstream media goes aggressively after anything that will get them eyeballs. MSNBC is the one outlet that I think is trying to copy the Fox business model on the opposite side, which is why I take both MSNBC and Fox with a grain of salt and go looking for WSJ, NYT, Forbes, and CBS (to name a few) and try to make sure I get my news from multiple corroborating sources across the political spectrum. In that effort, http://www.allsides.com is an excellent resource.
Franken issued an apology and called for an investigation, which reduced the "attractiveness" of the story. Indeed, it made the main story the unusual case of a public figure publicly apologizing and calling for an investigation of themselves. Was it a "cover his butt" apology, a clever political ploy, or a genuine/heartfelt apology? Making that judgment requires me to look into the heart of the man, and I cannot see into another man's heart. Until I have cause to do otherwise, I tend to take people at their word.
Moore, for example, has denied the charges against him. I wasn't there, and I do not know that Moore has a history of lying, so I have to suspend judgment.
My issue with Moore (in terms of the accusations) is the way he has publicly attacked his accusers. My issue with Moore politically has to do with his disregard for our Constitution. Clinton is a different story. He has been accused by multiple people, but he has a history of sexually inappropriate action, has a history of lying to dodge accusations (and has been caught several times), and he publicly attacked his accusers. I think it is VERY likely he did what he was accused of, and I do not trust his denials.
Trump was likewise accused. He has a history of lying, has published a book explicitly stating that he believes lying is appropriate if it gets him what he wants, is on tape bragging about being sexually abusive, and has said some amazingly inappropriate things throughout his career (on sexual themes). He clearly has a general attitude of entitlement and needs approval at every turn. He also attacked his accusers. I think the odds that he did what he was accused of is high, and his attack of his accusers is unacceptable.
The list goes on. Now perhaps you have cause to doubt Franken's denial, as I feel I have cause to doubt Trump and Clinton's denials. I simply do not. And yes, I have read the book with his observation about the political world running by different rules.
The slush funds are abyssmal. That they exist in our government, have existed in the entertainment industry, Fox, and multiple other venues is reprehensible. It is not so much the funds themselves - I DO think some restitution is due, monetary or otherwise. It is the requirement of secrecy for accepting the funds. And, in government, it is the use of my tax dollars to pay off abusers.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think the media tends to be more liberal, and very aggressively goes after somebody like Moore, but Franken seems to get a pass (up till recently, anyway) because he issued a "cover my butt" apology.
So, yeah, the same standard should be applied to all, and the thing that really bothers me is this alleged slush fund that Washington DC biggies can draw on to pay off their accusers.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
The slush funds are abyssmal. That they exist in our government, have existed in the entertainment industry, Fox, and multiple other venues is reprehensible. It is not so much the funds themselves - I DO think some restitution is due, monetary or otherwise. It is the requirement of secrecy for accepting the funds. And, in government, it is the use of my tax dollars to pay off abusers.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt looks like the Big 3 network's news coverage is spending far more time continuing to cover Moore than they are with Franken (the later accusations are virtually ignored) or John Conyers (who's accusers include a well known liberal attorney) together in spite of the fact that the former is, by their criteria, "old news" in comparison. And in their coverage of Moore virtually none of it mentions the exculpatory evidence that supports Moore.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThey have worked hard to earn that reputation!
This, of course, is why FoxNews and others exist. Imagine if we only had the left-sided news agencies on this.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Post...John Conyers (who's accusers include a well known liberal attorney)...
(Thought I'd grab that before my fellow grammar-nazi caught it, because I love you, brudder)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI often have to think through who's vs whose, and it's vs its.
(Thought I'd grab that before my fellow grammar-nazi caught it, because I love you, brudder)
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Postmeh. I don't think I'll ever get it right so I no longer worry about it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'll do my best to ... um... overlook.....
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt looks like the Big 3 network's news coverage is spending far more time continuing too cover Moore then they are with Franken (the later accusations are virtually ignored) or John Conyers (who's accusers include a well known liberal attorney) together in spite of the fact that the former is, by there criteria, "old news" in comparison. And in they're coverage of Moore virtually none of it mentions the exculpatory evidence that supports Moore.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm calling my therapist.
Okay, okay. Calm down
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt looks like the Big 3 network's news coverage is spending far more time continuing too cover Moore then they are with Franken (the later accusations are virtually ignored) or John Conyers (who's accusers include a well known liberal attorney) together in spite of the fact that the former is, by there criteria, "old news" in comparison. And in they're coverage of Moore virtually none of it mentions the exculpatory evidence that supports Moore.
Better?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnd in their coverage of Moore virtually none of it mentions the exculpatory evidence that supports Moore.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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OK - I'm tracking the pretty solid stream of MSM this and MSM that in this thread. What are you folks looking at? Far left sites (e.g., Huffington Post, Mother Jones) are still on it, mostly anti-Moore. Far right sites (e.g., Fox, Brietbart) are pounding on Franken (and how bad the MSM is). CNN has one article about Moore's wife. Other than that, a news search reveals no articles on either man since 11/21 - three days ago, and most are simply reporting who said what to whom, and who made what announcement.
So what are you all looking at? Can I get a few links?
I'd also like to know what evidence has surfaced that Moore is innocent. I have not seen anything other than his denial.Last edited by carpedm9587; 11-24-2017, 12:27 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostHe has not only not denied it but said it was meant as a joke. I posted Stephen Colbert's excellent response yesterday to that explanation:
....
Originally posted by RogueTo be fair, IMHBAO, anonymous accusers should be taken with a grain of salt.Last edited by Teallaura; 11-24-2017, 05:40 PM."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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