Originally posted by Adrift
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWho exactly do you feel I'm virtue signalling to here? This is a forum made up mostly of conservatives, I'm obviously not signalling to them, and the liberals here don't like me all that much, so why would I signal to them? What I feel like I'm doing is attempting to offer some sort of answer to the question "what can be done?" I'm a fix-it type of guy. This idea of "no one is enforcing the laws we have, so let's all just throw our arms up in the air and say nothing can be done" is not something I buy. I think there are plausible solutions, and I don't understand the resistance to them.
Again, not talking about concealed or open carry. The proposal I outlined was referring to a standard license and registration for all guns, period. I'm not sure why this was so hard to figure out.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, so what's the purpose of registering the gun? When a van is turned into a bomb to blow up a building, or used to mow down people on the sidewalk, they have been "registered", but that didn't stop anybody from using them for evil intent.
What would you expect the registration of firearms to achieve? (serious question)
Why do you think registering all guns vs registering only guns carried in public matters?Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNot a lot.
Why do you think registering all guns vs registering only guns carried in public matters?
Not all vehicles are required to be registered, and the ones that have been used in deadly attacks happen to be ones that WERE registered.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBecause when I asked how your suggestions would actually help you just said you were not God and had no idea how they would help stop these sorts of incidents.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAgain, if the registration and licensing of handguns is not stopping handgun violence or keeping handguns out of the hands of criminals now in states that do require it, how will requiring registration and licensing for all guns keep them out of the hands of criminals?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostAs far as I know, licensing and registration of handguns is not a thing in the United States (and I wasn't referring to concealed or open carry).
That's precisely why the video I linked to suggested that they're things that happen in other nations, but not in the US, and that perhaps help in lowering gun crime in those places they are practiced in. Did you watch the video?Last edited by Cow Poke; 11-08-2017, 11:25 AM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostSparko, I explained how it would help generally already. I don't know how it would help in every specific instance. No one can know that no matter what law we're referring to. But anyhow, how does any of that make me a virtue signaler?
As far as I know, licensing and registration of handguns is not a thing in the United States (and I wasn't referring to concealed or open carry). That's precisely why the video I linked to suggested that they're things that happen in other nations, but not in the US. Did you watch the video?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI wasn't advocating for the registering of ANY guns - just pointing out that it's not the same as vehicle registration.
Not all vehicles are required to be registered, and the ones that have been used in deadly attacks happen to be ones that WERE registered.
Second of all, licensing and registering a vehicle arguably goes a long way in preventing crime. It's a huge risk for a car without a license and registration to move around a city without law enforcement taking notice. And there have been plenty of cases where those vehicles that appeared to have been legally licensed and registered, but were not, were stopped for a number of routine traffic offences that prevented them from being used for the commission of crimes. Also, in cases where vehicles have been legally licensed and registered, and were used in criminal ways, the license and registration helped officers to find the offenders, or at least put them on the right track to find the offenders. So, as we can see from vehicles, licensing and registration is helpful, even if it doesn't completely prevent crime.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow do you think police track a serial number back to the registered gun owner then?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostCouple things here. First of all, aren't most vehicles major purpose is to be used on public roadways? I mean, sure, I suppose you're right that a vehicle sitting on bricks in someone's front yard doesn't need to be registered, but then, that sort of vehicle is pretty useless, isn't it? I suppose there are some vehicles that are still useful that don't need to be registered, but the analogy wasn't intended to be absolute. Typically we license and register vehicles we plan on using, and maybe the same should be done with guns. Maybe an exception can be made for some sort of display gun that's inoperable/missing its receiver or something, that way everything will seem fair to pro gun people.
Second of all, licensing and registering a vehicle arguably goes a long way in preventing crime.
It's a huge risk for a car without a license and registration to move around a city without law enforcement taking notice.
And there have been plenty of cases where those vehicles that appeared to have been legally licensed and registered, but were not, were stopped for a number of routine traffic offences that prevented them from being used for the commission of crimes. Also, in cases where vehicles have been legally licensed and registered, and were used in criminal ways, the license and registration helped officers to find the offenders, or at least put them on the right track to find the offenders. So, as we can see from vehicles, licensing and registration is helpful, even if it doesn't completely prevent crime.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postbecause that is what you are doing. saying "we have to do something" but when asked how that will help you can't answer.
"As far as prevention goes, licensing and registration would serve to help track guns used in a crime to their origin, and even if that origin isn't to the criminal themselves, it would help the police know where to start in an investigation. Also, if guns are licensed and registered, the government could do yearly checks to ensure that the gun is still in the legal owner's possession, and the owner hadn't sold, lost, or had the gun stolen without informing anyone. If a license is revoked for any reason, then this should prevent the individual from ever legally owning a gun in the future. Registration could also help with random inspections to ensure the gun owner is properly storing the weapon in a safe so that there aren't any in-home accidents, and to lower the risk of theft."
Just because I don't know how it would help in every instance doesn't mean I don't have an answer for why it could hypothetically help in general.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou are just trying to look like "good guy who wants to do something to help" even though all you are doing is making noise.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostHow do you think police track a serial number back to the registered gun owner then?
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The main reason for registering a vehicle is for the State to charge you a road use tax."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostActually, some states and municipalities do require the registration and licensing of handguns. New York, for example.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI don't think it helps to compare 'what works in other countries' with the US, because we are so historically and culturally different. I think we need better justification that just "it works over there".
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhy do you keep saying this? I did tell you how it would help. Reread post #147 where I stated,
"As far as prevention goes, licensing and registration would serve to help track guns used in a crime to their origin, and even if that origin isn't to the criminal themselves, it would help the police know where to start in an investigation. Also, if guns are licensed and registered, the government could do yearly checks to ensure that the gun is still in the legal owner's possession, and the owner hadn't sold, lost, or had the gun stolen without informing anyone. If a license is revoked for any reason, then this should prevent the individual from ever legally owning a gun in the future. Registration could also help with random inspections to ensure the gun owner is properly storing the weapon in a safe so that there aren't any in-home accidents, and to lower the risk of theft."
Just because I don't know how it would help in every instance doesn't mean I don't have an answer for why it could hypothetically help in general.
To who? Who do you feel I'm trying to look like a good guy to? Name the person on this forum. I can tell you for a certainty that that isn't what is going on in my mind, and I should know, because it's my mind.
Well I imagine it would be through some sort of national database, but what does that have to do with unlicensed and unregistered guns?
1. Criminals usually buy stolen weapons or guns which have the serial numbers removed.
2. Bullets don't have serial numbers so registering a gun doesn't really do anything to stop crimes. Maybe they should register bullets instead.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNot talking about vehicles up on blocks. Talking about farm use vehicles and industrial vehicles that are not used on public roads. They are not required to be registered or licensed.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, when somebody steals a legally licensed and registered vehicle....
By the way, it feels really weird that I have to explain this stuff to you guys. This is all pretty basic stuff that we all know. It feels like you're all just giving me a hard time.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhich is why criminals are smart enough to steal a legally licensed and registered vehicle.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostUmmmmm..... again, criminals will use the legally licensed and registered vehicles, either stealing them or renting them, and that doesn't stop them at all from committing their crime. As I stated earlier, it only fills in some blanks of what happened after the fact.
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