Canada’s Medical Assistance in Dying Law

[whag]

You are not my brother you idiot. That only applies to fellow believers.

Jesus used this as a teaching moment. He said, "Who are my mother and my brothers? Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."

Relativism: A brother is someone who does the will of God. If a man calls his brother a fool, he can’t be spiritually related since he just called him a fool.

Seer: IMG_1782.jpeg

[Sparko]

Sparko: Canada’s killing depressed people to save money!

Also Sparko: Canada’s not killing its convicted murderers, thereby requiring the state to fund their continued existence.

It is actually cheaper to keep convicts alive than use the death penalty. They usually have to remain alive throughout the various appeals and such, and just the costs of all of those extra trials and appeals alone is more than feeding and caring for a convict for 20+ years.




Also, I was not minimizing anything. But Bipolar is not a reason to kill yourself. But I am sure the person who has it thinks it is when they are being depressed.

Fair enough. Do me the same courtesy here.

Your objections to MAID are partial and noted, so let’s reboot to get back on track. Let’s rewrite MAID to eliminate the outliers inherent in your objection. To obtain this service, an applicant must

• Have a serious illness, disease, or disability.
• Be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed.
• Experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from an illness, disease, disability, or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that the person considers acceptable.

We’re eliminating the possibility of pressuring people to die to “save healthcare costs.” We’re leaving it entirely up to the individual, so there’s no possibility for ghouls to apply pressure. This is a hypothetical scenario in which only those criteria are met.

Do those people have the right to a medically assisted death? By answering this honestly, we’ll have a better idea of the basis of your argument.

I see you sneaking in weasel language there Whag.

"Unbearable" physical or "mental suffering"

state of decline "that the person considers acceptable" - that leaves too many loopholes. "unbearable" can mean anything to anyone. A teenager who can't access her phone finds it "unbearable" and "mental suffering"

Whag I think if someone wants to kill themselves they can find a way to do it. They don't need the state to "help" them. I don't think the state should be complicit in suicide. The temptation to misuse that power is too great. Sometimes the slope really is slippery.

[whag]

It is actually cheaper to keep convicts alive than use the death penalty. They usually have to remain alive throughout the various appeals and such, and just the costs of all of those extra trials and appeals alone is more than feeding and caring for a convict for 20+ years.

Also, I was not minimizing anything. But Bipolar is not a reason to kill yourself. But I am sure the person who has it thinks it is when they are being depressed.

I see you sneaking in weasel language there Whag

That was a direct lift from the law itself. I should have told you that.

"Unbearable" physical or "mental suffering"

state of decline "that the person considers acceptable" - that leaves too many loopholes. "unbearable" can mean anything to anyone. A teenager who can't access her phone finds it "unbearable" and "mental suffering"

Okay, let’s limit it to just people who we all agree has an unbearable physical condition that can’t be cured. Are you really saying you believe there’s no such thing as an unbearable physical condition?

Whag I think if someone wants to kill themselves they can find a way to do it. They don't need the state to "help" them. I don't think the state should be complicit in suicide.

There are physical conditions that would prevent a person from doing the act himself. Can the state assist in that case?

[Mountain Man]

Whag I think if someone wants to kill themselves they can find a way to do it. They don't need the state to "help" them. I don't think the state should be complicit in suicide. The temptation to misuse that power is too great. Sometimes the slope really is slippery.

The worst part, I think, is that by enshrining it in law, the government is telling people that suicide is acceptable, and that if you want to kill yourself, there's no reason not to because the social stigma has been removed.

[whag]

The worst part, I think, is that by enshrining it in law, the government is telling people that suicide is acceptable, and that if you want to kill yourself, there's no reason not to because the social stigma has been removed.

There’s no stigma if you’re gone. Also, consider the religious context of suicide. The person who self-immolates, like this dude, has the opposite of stigma but admiration:

IMG_1784.jpeg

[seer]

Relativism: A brother is someone who does the will of God. If a man calls his brother a fool, he can’t be spiritually related since he just called him a fool.

You know whag, you reek of death...And there is no pretzel here you stupid man...

[mossrose]

whag, an honest question:

Would it have made your father's suicide (for which I have great sympathy for you) any easier to bear if the state had assisted him with it?

[tabibito]

Relativism: A brother is someone who does the will of God. If a man calls his brother a fool, he can’t be spiritually related since he just called him a fool.

Valid - oversimplified - but within limits, valid.

[whag]

whag, an honest question:

Would it have made your father's suicide (for which I have great sympathy for you) any easier to bear if the state had assisted him with it?

It’s hard to say since there’s nothing worse than the horrorshock of discovering him, but a prolonged goodbye at least would have been bittersweet. Obviously, I would have preferred him sticking around. I wonder almost every day what I could have said or done at that age to save him.

Personally, I have the least amount of problem with very old people making the decision. My friend who told me about this said a lot of old people with no quality of life are opting for this. That’s a little more understandable to me, someone who’s lived a long life with no family who’s in pain and just done with 10,000 drugs and a rotting fleshsuit.

Other cases I’ve heard about where I couldn’t imagine trying to logically talk someone out of it—where it would be insensitive and offensive to tell someone to live in torment—I support. By “support”, I mean I couldn’t imagine picketing outside their house yelling “stay alive,” or however that kind of opposition plays out.

[mossrose]

It’s hard to say since there’s nothing worse than the horrorshock of discovering him, but a prolonged goodbye at least would have been bittersweet. Obviously, I would have preferred him sticking around. I wonder almost every day what I could have said or done at that age to save him.

Personally, I have the least amount of problem with very old people making the decision. My friend who told me about this said a lot of old people with no quality of life are opting for this. That’s a little more understandable to me, someone who’s lived a long life with no family who’s in pain and just done with 10,000 drugs and a rotting fleshsuit.

Other cases I’ve heard about where I couldn’t imagine trying to logically talk someone out of it—where it would be insensitive and offensive to tell someone to live in torment—I support. By “support”, I mean I couldn’t imagine picketing outside their house yelling “stay alive,” or however that kind of opposition plays out.

Thank you for answering. I appreciate it.

I think everyone who deals with a suicide in the family has those same thoughts........what could I/we have done to help. In my brother's case I found out afterwards that he had attempted several times, but only my parents and his wife knew that. I often wonder if the circumstances in his marriage and with his addiction were somehow addressed with counselling if it would have changed anything. The sad part is that we don't get do-overs.

But, having said that, his death would not have affected me any less, and perhaps it would have more so, if he had taken an assisted suicide route.

[whag]

Thank you for answering. I appreciate it.

I think everyone who deals with a suicide in the family has those same thoughts........what could I/we have done to help. In my brother's case I found out afterwards that he had attempted several times, but only my parents and his wife knew that. I often wonder if the circumstances in his marriage and with his addiction were somehow addressed with counselling if it would have changed anything. The sad part is that we don't get do-overs.

But, having said that, his death would not have affected me any less, and perhaps it would have more so, if he had taken an assisted suicide route.

Yea the more I think about it, the more it feels like choosing which eye I’d prefer to have gouged out. Saying goodbye hurts as much as no goodbye.

Okay, now I’m gonna cry into my pillow and cuddle my newest cat, Soxxy:

IMG_3617.jpeg

[mossrose]

Yea the more I think about it, the more it feels like choosing which eye I’d prefer to have gouged out. Saying goodbye hurts as much as no goodbye.

Okay, now I’m gonna cry into my pillow and cuddle my newest cat, Soxxy:

IMG_3617.jpeg

Looks like a sweet kitten.

[seer]

Valid - oversimplified - but within limits, valid.

How so? How is a pagan my 'brother' when Christ is clear that those who can be called such are those who do the will of God. The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.

[tabibito]

How so? How is a pagan my 'brother' when Christ is clear that those who can be called such are those who do the will of God.

That would seem to expand on Whag's line of reasoning. It should also be noted that neighbours are loosely within the same groupings.

The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.

That would not include pagans, who avow that there are gods.

[seer]

That would seem to expand on Whag's line of reasoning. It should also be noted that neighbours are loosely within the same groupings.

That would not include pagans, who avow that there are gods.

That makes no sense, is Christ or Paul or Peter in danger of hell fire because they use derogatory terms against their fellow man?