Canada’s Medical Assistance in Dying Law

[whag]

You can if my family is dead set on killing the rest of your family.

Palestine children don’t want to kill anyone except those who make them take naps and pray. They wanna play and eat candy.

[whag]

There was a military veteran who had been wounded on duty and tried for years to get a stairlift installed in her home from the government and was refused every time.

Last year, I believe it was, the social worker she was discussing the issue with suggested she apply for MAID instead. Of course the PM was all "outraged and going to investigate" but I have not heard of any investigation or further action on the matter. The social worker likely got a gentle smack on the wrist and told to be careful to whom they directed such advice.

Easily countered by a thousand other emotional anecdotes. Stop boring us.

[seer]

Palestine children don’t want to kill anyone except those who make them take naps and pray. They wanna play and eat candy.

Neither did Nazi children. Who do you blame for those deaths - the Nazis or the Allies?

[mossrose]

I propose nothing regarding religious groups’ pushback on MAID.

But you asked your Canadian friend that question, so I gathered you were expecting religious groups to be doing something.

MAID doesn’t threaten the populace.

Yet…

But we are the ones paying for it.

Bully for you. No one has proposed the prohibition of prayer.

Except at abortion clinics, where it is currently illegal to stand outside and pray. And I am referring to prayer, not interfering in any way with those entering. And as I said, any sort of protest, including prayer, is opening "religious groups" up to arrest and prosecution.

Thanks for the derail. What you could have done here is give a gentle and considerate response to this difficult issue, but instead you packed two sentences with a Gish Gallop of triggered, unrelated topics.

The only one triggered here appears to be you, my friend. The thread was derailed with mention of the Middle East before I posted. My response was a "gentle, and considerate response", speaking of my knowledge of the issue from living here.

Stop boring us and say what you believe about people who decide to kill themselves. That’s the only thing that will make this discussion substantial and interesting.

Perhaps you should have been more clear in you op regarding what exact responses you were expecting.

I am saddened and grieved for those who choose, or are coerced, as per the veteran I mentioned in the thread, to accept suicide as their only solution. My brother took his own life at the age of 35, leaving two young children. So I know the pain it causes to the family. Hence I believe I have a right to an opinion on the matter.

But I am also grieved, and outraged, that a government would, without any sort of consultation or referendum from their constituents, bring in a program that encourages that act instead of offering other help where it may be of use. And I am outraged that I am forced to pay for these assisted deaths without any say in the matter.

[mossrose]

Easily countered by a thousand other emotional anecdotes. Stop boring us.

You are certainly easily bored, aren’t you?

As usual, you aren’t really interested in honest discourse, whag. You start all these threads to goad believers into some sort of response, but the responses never satisfy you.

So, have at it. I don’t need to waste my time with you when you aren’t really interested in what any of us think.

[Sparko]

Can people with mental illness access MAiD?

Right now, people whose only medical condition is mental illness are not eligible for MAiD in Canada. This is currently due to change in March 2027.

Currently, some people with mental illness may be eligible for MAiD if they also have a ‘grievous and irremediable’ medical condition that is physical in nature.

https://www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and...es%20of%20MAiD.

Were you just ignorant of the law or trying to skirt around the commandment to not lie?

My dad had a wicked case of bipolar and hung himself when I was 12. There’s a difference between being sad and being tormented by a mental handicap. Please put some considerate thought into your next response, otherwise I might view you as careless or malevolent.

What do they mean by "now allow MAID for eligible persons who wish to pursue a medically assisted death, whether their natural death is reasonably foreseeable or not." - sounds like you can request MAID even if you are not dying. Even if they don't currently allow it for depression, it will come soon enough.

Remember this?

Source: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/us/why-did-this-29-year-old-physically-healthy-dutch-woman-die-by-assisted-suicide/articleshow/110674455.cms&ved=2ahUKEwiPzeb4-eyGAxXKkIkEHa3eC2cQFnoECA4QAw&usg=AOvVaw0eQuCeBSEbBAzKtmDymq7X

A young Dutch woman passed away in a form of assisted suicide despite being physically healthy. She had earlier sought the permission of the Netherland government to end her life after suffering from various incurable forms of mental health illnesses. Her request was approved in May

© Copyright Original Source

[Sparko]

it will come soon enough.

From the OP link:

Important: On February 29, 2024, legislation to extend the temporary exclusion of eligibility for MAID in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness received royal assent and immediately came into effect. The eligibility date for persons suffering solely from a mental illness is now March 17, 2027. For more information, please see Eligibility for persons suffering solely from mental illness.

[whag]

Neither did Nazi children. Who do you blame for those deaths - the Nazis or the Allies?

Not parallel. Germany attempted to invade the world, while Palestine had displacement and apartheid thrust upon it. And your ignorance of historians who regarded civilian bombings as less than effective compared to strategic dismantling of axis powers’ military installations is noted.

Yours is a savage view, more akin to tribal conquests bragged about in the Bible than anything remotely Christian. It’s no wonder that Bibi invoked the baby-spearing of Amalek in order to add gravitas to its patriotic child slaughter.

[whag]

From the OP link:

Important: On February 29, 2024, legislation to extend the temporary exclusion of eligibility for MAID in circumstances where a person's sole underlying medical condition is a mental illness received royal assent and immediately came into effect. The eligibility date for persons suffering solely from a mental illness is now March 17, 2027. For more information, please see Eligibility for persons suffering solely from mental illness.

I included that quote in my post.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...24#post1594624

So by 2027, slight sadness will NOT be enough to obtain assisted suicide services. You dishonestly claimed it was to villainize MAID and the people using it.

And you’ve still yet to provide any reason why terminally ill patients wracked with pain and debt shouldn’t have the right to die. Clearly, you fear death and are bewildered why anyone would want to die, all while accusing others of worshipping death.

Regroup. Take a breath. Come back when you’ve sorted all this out and aren’t solely reliant on dishonest tactics like saying Canada will kill you if you’re kinda weepy.

[whag]

But you asked your Canadian friend that question, so I gathered you were expecting religious groups to be doing something.




Yet…

But we are the ones paying for it.




Except at abortion clinics, where it is currently illegal to stand outside and pray. And I am referring to prayer, not interfering in any way with those entering. And as I said, any sort of protest, including prayer, is opening "religious groups" up to arrest and prosecution.




The only one triggered here appears to be you, my friend. The thread was derailed with mention of the Middle East before I posted. My response was a "gentle, and considerate response", speaking of my knowledge of the issue from living here.



Perhaps you should have been more clear in you op regarding what exact responses you were expecting.

I am saddened and grieved for those who choose, or are coerced, as per the veteran I mentioned in the thread, to accept suicide as their only solution. My brother took his own life at the age of 35, leaving two young children. So I know the pain it causes to the family. Hence I believe I have a right to an opinion on the matter.

But I am also grieved, and outraged, that a government would, without any sort of consultation or referendum from their constituents, bring in a program that encourages that act instead of offering other help where it may be of use. And I am outraged that I am forced to pay for these assisted deaths without any say in the matter.

You’ll be relieved I won’t tit for tat on this sensitive issue. I’m sorry to hear about your brother. You know I experienced the same thing.

Re: your outrage over having to pay for things you weren’t consulted on, I’m currently paying for the slaughter of babies in Palestine. Religions are untaxed, meaning I have to make up for the shortfall in revenue. I pay higher property taxes, higher sales taxes, and other disguised fees because Scientology, Mormonism, and (yes) GTY get a free pass.

I wasn’t consulted about any of this. Welcome to civilization, mossy.

[Sparko]

I included that quote in my post.

https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...24#post1594624

So by 2027, slight sadness will NOT be enough to obtain assisted suicide services. You dishonestly claimed it was to villainize MAID and the people using it.

And you’ve still yet to provide any reason why terminally ill patients wracked with pain and debt shouldn’t have the right to die. Clearly, you fear death and are bewildered why anyone would want to die, all while accusing others of worshipping death.

Regroup. Take a breath. Come back when you’ve sorted all this out and aren’t solely reliant on dishonest tactics like saying Canada will kill you if you’re kinda weepy.

I am concerned because we already have reports of people being pressured into MAID when the state doesn't feel like the cost to keep them alive is worth it. It's an easy way out, and saves money to the healthcare system. And as it becomes available for anyone for any reason (which it will) you will find people being encouraged to take advantage of it, rather than face their problems. For a country who has eliminated the death penalty, it is pretty ironic how much of a death merchant they are becoming.

And I never said "a little sad" or "weepy" I said "a bit depressed" and depression is listed among the qualifying mental illnesses.
This includes medical conditions that are primarily treated within the domain of psychiatry, such as depression and personality disorders.

So stop being dishonest yourself.

[seer]

Not parallel. Germany attempted to invade the world, while Palestine had displacement and apartheid thrust upon it. And your ignorance of historians who regarded civilian bombings as less than effective compared to strategic dismantling of axis powers’ military installations is noted.

And Hamas was to destroy the Jewish state. And stop with your apartheid lie. The Jews are fighting for survival. You are an anti-Semite.

Yours is a savage view, more akin to tribal conquests bragged about in the Bible than anything remotely Christian. It’s no wonder that Bibi invoked the baby-spearing of Amalek in order to add gravitas to its patriotic child slaughter.

You are a fool whag - you are a moral relativist - your opinions are as meaningless as you are.

[whag]

You are a fool whag - you are a moral relativist - your opinions are as meaningless as you are.

Relativism:

²² But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother^[a]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’^[b] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ^[c]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of ^[d]hell fire.

[seer]

Relativism:

²² But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother^[a]without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’^[b] shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ^[c]‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of ^[d]hell fire.

You are not my brother you idiot. That only applies to fellow believers.

Jesus used this as a teaching moment. He said, "Who are my mother and my brothers? Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of God, he is my brother and sister and mother."

[whag]

I am concerned because we already have reports of people being pressured into MAID when the state doesn't feel like the cost to keep them alive is worth it. It's an easy way out, and saves money to the healthcare system. And as it becomes available for anyone for any reason (which it will) you will find people being encouraged to take advantage of it, rather than face their problems. For a country who has eliminated the death penalty, it is pretty ironic how much of a death merchant they are becoming.

Sparko: Canada’s killing depressed people to save money!

Also Sparko: Canada’s not killing its convicted murderers, thereby requiring the state to fund their continued existence.

And I never said "a little sad" or "weepy" I said "a bit depressed" and depression is listed among the qualifying mental illnesses.
This includes medical conditions that are primarily treated within the domain of psychiatry, such as depression and personality disorders.

I asked you to put thought into your response, not minimize the hell that is bipolar I.

So stop being dishonest yourself.

Fair enough. Do me the same courtesy here.

Your objections to MAID are partial and noted, so let’s reboot to get back on track. Let’s rewrite MAID to eliminate the outliers inherent in your objection. To obtain this service, an applicant must

• Have a serious illness, disease, or disability.
• Be in an advanced state of decline that cannot be reversed.
• Experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from an illness, disease, disability, or state of decline that cannot be relieved under conditions that the person considers acceptable.

We’re eliminating the possibility of pressuring people to die to “save healthcare costs.” We’re leaving it entirely up to the individual, so there’s no possibility for ghouls to apply pressure. This is a hypothetical scenario in which only those criteria are met.

Do those people have the right to a medically assisted death? By answering this honestly, we’ll have a better idea of the basis of your argument.