Snopes finally admits old Joe showered with his daughter

[CivilDiscourse]

Some here will not have it.

For them, Biden is a disgusting pervert and reprobate for having a shower with his young child while Trump is a man facing mere historical accusations despite his known comments and actions.

It comes down to Democrats Bad - Republicans - Good. Which is the mindset we expect in young children.

I've seen the opposite mentality among many here on the other side.

[Diogenes]

Your grasp of syntax remains below par; the thought that the diary entry links to "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate," is "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", whereas the context of "was I molested?" is proximately linked to "not liking the woolzacks [sic] house".

The writer (purportedly Biden) is acknowledging being "hyper-sexualized" at "a young age" and wondering if she was molested, even if she doesn't remember any specifics. Among the following list, "showers with my dad" comes last and is linked to "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", which (and I'm not a psychologist but neither is anyone here, far as I know) may well become more of a sexualized experience for a minor who has been subject to sexualization by peers and/or molested. She doesn't accuse Biden of molesting her in this passage and does not even link the action of showering with her father as obviously inappropriate but rather "probably inappropriate" on reflection.

There's a lot more ambiguity in that short personal recollection than in Trump's professed sexual molestation of women or in E. Jean Carroll's accusation that Trump raped her.

-Sam

I cannot fathom why would attempt to obfuscate Biden's showering with his daughter. Especially as Biden has also inappropriately pinched a young girl and extremely inappropriately touched another, both instances captured by C-SPAN.

Some here will not have it.

For them, Biden is a disgusting pervert and reprobate for having a shower with his young child while Trump is a man facing mere historical accusations despite his known comments and actions.

It comes down to Democrats Bad - Republicans - Good. Which is the mindset we expect in young children.

Both are disgusting perverts and reprobates in their own ways.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Tara Reade who has alleged similar actions by Biden for which Trump was sued.

In the end, voting is about policy and the less worse choice. Republicans bad, Democrats worse.

[Cow Poke]

Some here will not have it.

For them, Biden is a disgusting pervert and reprobate for having a shower with his young child....

Not surprisingly, there are several things you got wrong...

A) I see your attempt to make Ashley a "young child", perhaps indicating she was not sexually aware?
2) Biden is not a pervert because he took showers with his daughter - he's took showers with his daughter because he's a pervert.

[Cow Poke]

.....
Both are disgusting perverts and reprobates in their own ways.

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with Tara Reade who has alleged similar actions by Biden for which Trump was sued.

In the end, voting is about policy and the less worse choice. Republicans bad, Democrats worse.

That

[Cow Poke]

Your grasp of syntax remains below par; the thought that the diary entry links to "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate," is "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", whereas the context of "was I molested?" is proximately linked to "not liking the woolzacks [sic] house".

The writer (purportedly Biden) is acknowledging being "hyper-sexualized" at "a young age" and wondering if she was molested, even if she doesn't remember any specifics. Among the following list, "showers with my dad" comes last and is linked to "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", which (and I'm not a psychologist but neither is anyone here, far as I know) may well become more of a sexualized experience for a minor who has been subject to sexualization by peers and/or molested. She doesn't accuse Biden of molesting her in this passage and does not even link the action of showering with her father as obviously inappropriate but rather "probably inappropriate" on reflection.

There's a lot more ambiguity in that short personal recollection than in Trump's professed sexual molestation of women or in E. Jean Carroll's accusation that Trump raped her.

-Sam

wow

[Cow Poke]

All the signs are there.

Also, when you have a child who ends up being as messed up as Hunter, that's usually indication of an abusive household. Two siblings messed up that way, makes it pretty decisive. Unless Hunter and Ashley just have some sort of bad gene, their behavior is pretty clear indication they were abused, even putting Ashley's diary aside.

Bad parenting.

Then you also add in the creepy way Joe acts around children that are not his own in full public view, just underscores it all. It's like everyone in the family ignoring the numerous signs that uncle Joe is molesting his niece because he's such a nice old man and thus couldn't possibly be true.

But he's a Democrat, so it's perfectly OK.

[Mountain Man]

Your grasp of syntax remains below par; the thought that the diary entry links to "showers with my dad (probably not appropriate," is "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", whereas the context of "was I molested?" is proximately linked to "not liking the woolzacks [sic] house".

The writer (purportedly Biden) is acknowledging being "hyper-sexualized" at "a young age" and wondering if she was molested, even if she doesn't remember any specifics. Among the following list, "showers with my dad" comes last and is linked to "being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be", which (and I'm not a psychologist but neither is anyone here, far as I know) may well become more of a sexualized experience for a minor who has been subject to sexualization by peers and/or molested. She doesn't accuse Biden of molesting her in this passage and does not even link the action of showering with her father as obviously inappropriate but rather "probably inappropriate" on reflection.

There's a lot more ambiguity in that short personal recollection than in Trump's professed sexual molestation of women or in E. Jean Carroll's accusation that Trump raped her.

-Sam

Ambiguity is only introduced if one sets aside a basic understanding of the English language in favor of a preferred narrative. Otherwise, what Ashley Biden wrote is straightforward. First, she states the problem:

Hyper-sexualized @ a young age. What is this due to? Was I molested? I think so - I can't remember specifics but I do remember trauma...

She then presents the trauma she remembers:

I remember not liking the Woolzacks house; I remember somewhat being sexualized with caroline; I remember having sex with friends @ a young age; showers w/ my dad (probably not appropriate), being turned on when I wasn't supposed to be.

The separation you so desperately want to see between "Was I molested? I think so - I can't remember specifics but I do remember trauma" and "showers w/ my dad" simply doesn't exist. It's one continuous thought that is easy to follow and comprehend, unless one wants to pretend that Ashley suddenly invented her own unique syntax while composing her journal.

[Cow Poke]

You're such a lying sack, CP.

Ah, an accusation of lying without substantiation. So very typical of you, Jim.

And now you're calling Ashley a "young lady" at the time. Isn't that cute.

What does "young lady" mean to you, Jim, is there a specific age?

You have no idea how old she was, nor do you know that it was traumatic.

You have no idea how old she was, and she's obviously suggesting her youth was traumatic.

You didn't even know Ashley was his biological daughter.

The only mistake I made, Jim, was taking somebody else's word that Ashley was Jill's daughter, suggesting Joe was her step-dad. My error.

Ashley was simply looking back on her life and wondering if maybe showering with her dad might have been inappropriate.

Because it was.

Maybe it was for her, but that isn't to accuse Biden of doing anything wrong other than in your sick mind.

triggering intensifies.gif

[rogue06]

The amount of ambiguity in Ashley Biden's diary is significant

Um, no. The ambiguity only exists in the minds of those who need for there to be ambiguity.

apart from questions of authorship,

There is no question of authorship. You can stop pretending now.

given the manner in which the content was released, the text itself is highly ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

Utterly irrelevant. The text speaks for itself. It doesn't require interrpretation much less the level of massaging and spin you seek to employ.

It was not uncommon a number of years ago (in this region, at least) for parents to take clothed (swimsuit) showers with their small children.

Something tells me if they were wearing swimsuits Ashley wouldn't have written about the inappropriateness of the acts.

A point of fact, to that remark: despite some rather lazy and hackish prose here claiming the contrary, Ashley Biden is not Joe Biden's step-daughter. She is his daughter, born after his marriage to Jill. And if y'all can't get that point of fact correct or are too lazy to check for yourselves, your motivations for pressing these points becomes suspect.

Definitely his daughter as I've made perfectly clear. Not that it changes anything.

I'll note that some of the apologists here have claimed this was written when she was a child and not an adult looking back on the incidents. I guess according to Sam Logic™ that therefore means we can now suspect the motives of any defenders. Right?

There is no timestamp on the purported diary entry regarding Ashley Biden's memories of showering with her father. If true, we don't know how young she was or why, looking back while trying to process her childhood, she felt that such occasions might be inappropriate.

She tells us the why.

In the same span of time, the cultural sentiment in this region has moved away from parents showering with their children, even in swimwear. There's more than a fair chance that Ashley Biden, if she did indeed write this entry, was processing the same cultural change that many Gen-X/elder Millennials have experienced.

OMG, you really are still desperately clinging to a hope that this wasn't written by Ashley. Should we question your motives now?

All that to say that the ambiguity around this purported entry in a private diary processing private thoughts makes moral/ethical conclusions exceptionally risky — at best. And that the same people who dismiss Trump being found liable for digitally raping E. Jean Carroll or Christine Blasey Ford accusing Bret Kavanaugh of sexual assault on the basis of personal memory being unreliable are really showing exactly what motivated their ostensible skepticism.

I'll bet you're unaware that Ford's lawyer is on tape boasting to fellow travelers that the purpose of accusing Kavanaugh was all about putting an "asterisk" next to his name before “he takes a scalpel” to abortion law.

[Cow Poke]

Sam, you're doing that thing that people do when they don't really have a case, so they start grasping at straws...

The amount of ambiguity in Ashley Biden's diary is significant:

It's not - so you have to start your grasping...

apart from questions of authorship,

That has been resolved except in the most deluded.

given the manner in which the content was released,

Totally irrelevant. Either it was her diary or it was not, regardless of the manner in which it was released.

the text itself is highly ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

Given your need to attempt to create doubt, I can only assume you're still on that mission...

It was not uncommon a number of years ago (in this region, at least) for parents to take clothed (swimsuit) showers with their small children......

So, now you have to invent a detail -- perhaps you imagine the Bidens in swimsuits, where there was no mention of such.

On the issue of Ashley Biden's daughter being his "step-daughter" - that was my error, which, as is your custom, you attribute to laziness.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Not surprisingly, there are several things you got wrong...

A) I see your attempt to make Ashley a "young child", perhaps indicating she was not sexually aware?

Yet are not children deemed by some here to be little innocents untouched by the realities of their sexuality? The extract of text provided on this thread gives no indication of her age.

2) Biden is not a pervert because he took showers with his daughter - he's took showers with his daughter because he's a pervert.

Why is having a shower with your offspring perverted? What is your problem with a child, as in offspring, seeing their parent naked?

Do you regard naturists as perverts?

[Cow Poke]

Yet are not children deemed by some here to be little innocents untouched by the realities of their sexuality? The extract of text provided on this thread gives no indication of her age.

She was old enough to remember it was "probably not appropriate".

Why is having a shower with your offspring perverted? What is your problem with a child, as in offspring, seeing their parent naked?

Why is it necessary -- again, you assume perhaps they were experiencing a severe water shortage?

Do you regard naturists as perverts?

Perhaps you could start a thread on that! As far as I know, the Bidens were not nudists.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

She was old enough to remember it was "probably not appropriate".

That comment was made by her in later life, looking back.

Why is it necessary -- again, you assume perhaps they were experiencing a severe water shortage?

For younger children it can be a safety precaution. It achieves two things at once. Children like being with their parents and showering or bathing together can be fun. It saves a valuable resource which may also be in short supply.

[Cow Poke]

That comment was made by her in later life, looking back.

Yes, ma'am - we're aware of that.

For younger children it can be a safety precaution.

You have reason to believe she was, perhaps, a toddler?

It achieves two things at once. Children like being with their parents and showering or bathing together can be fun. It saves a valuable resource which may also be in short supply.

I can't help reading that in a Kamala Harris voice!

[Mountain Man]

Why is having a shower with your offspring perverted? What is your problem with a child, as in offspring, seeing their parent naked?

You're trying to cloud the issue by asking general questions when you should be asking why Ashley Biden specifically considered taking showers with Old Joe to be not appropriate, and we don't have to guess, because Ashley herself provides the answer:

"Was I molested? I think so - I can't remember specifics but I do remember trauma... showers w/ my dad..."