Even Atheists Think That Atheists Are More Immoral.

[Charles]

No Charles each man will suffer to the exact portion of their sin. Then death. Remember I am an Annihilationist. And yes, God will be perfectly just. Even if His sense of justice does not conform to yours.



Even if hell is eternal, I suspect that there would be degrees of suffering. Since we are judged according to our works (whether saved or unsaved) I don't think a Joe Six Pack would share the same degree of punishment as a Hitler. In either case, like I said, whether eternal or temporal, I don't want to experience it.

Well that is at least not as bad as most of the interpretations I have heard. I have not met many Christians with your view. So I guess I will say that in this case you do better than most Christians do.

[seer]

Well that is at least not as bad as most of the interpretations I have heard. I have not met many Christians with your view. So I guess I will say that in this case you do better than most Christians do.

The case for eternal conscious torment is rather weak, the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in hell.

http://jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

[Charles]

The case for eternal conscious torment is rather weak, the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in hell.

http://jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annihilationism

Thanks for the links. The fact that the case to be made is weak is unfortunately not enough since quite many people seem to still hold to the idea.

[seer]

Thanks for the links. The fact that the case to be made is weak is unfortunately not enough since quite many people seem to still hold to the idea.

It really doesn't matter, hell is going to one thing and not another - and all my protests or musings won't change that.

[JimL]

The case for eternal conscious torment is rather weak, the wages of sin is death, not eternal life in hell.

According to your religion yes, we are all going to die because of daddy Adam who made sinners of us all. That includes you also seer, or do you think you will never die? So the phrase that "the wages of sin is death" has nothing to do with what may take place after death. Just sayin!

[Teallaura]

According to your religion yes, we are all going to die because of daddy Adam who made sinners of us all. That includes you also seer, or do you think you will never die? So the phrase that "the wages of sin is death" has nothing to do with what may take place after death. Just sayin!

Jim, he's arguing annhilationism. And yes, the phrase is important to that argument - and does, in fact, have something to do with what happens after death - in either case, actually.

Oh, and you're arguing original sin - few hold to your view of it.

[Tassman]

Right so your universe is basically unjust, if you can get away with it in this life you win!

Given that this is the only universe there is, the justice or otherwise of it is irrelevant. The likes of Stalin are not going to modify their cruelty on the basis of fearing eternal punishment from a deity they don't believe in.

That makes a mockery of both justice and morality.

No, it means we must find ways to better socialise and acculturate our children in the communal values of our society. Then they are more likely to grow up as responsible, compassionate adults rather than as greedy, vicious, tyrannical monsters.

[seer]

Given that this is the only universe there is, the justice or otherwise of it is irrelevant. The likes of Stalin are not going to modify their cruelty on the basis of fearing eternal punishment from a deity they don't believe in.

I'm not necessarily saying that a Stalin would modify his behavior for fear of "justice" but some men do and have. What I'm saying is that an unjust universe makes a mockery of morality. What if you had a culture where a certain group of men had the right to rape with no consequences - that would make a sham of their ethical system.

[Sparko]

I would say you are without excuse if you go for the idea that those who never heard of Christ would be punished eternally and then go on to praise the God behind that idea.

people are sent to hell for sinning, not whether the heard of Christ or not. Even those who have never heard of Christ still sin.

[Sparko]

and all that suffering and pain is our fault. The Human race. for rebelling against God. Sin. Charles asked "why is someone punished infinitely for a finite sin?" -- because that "finite" sin is the cause of all the misery in the universe.

Of course under your world view you still have the same suffering and misery, and there is no cause or end to it. good luck with that.

[Charles]

and all that suffering and pain is our fault. The Human race. for rebelling against God. Sin. Charles asked "why is someone punished infinitely for a finite sin?" -- because that "finite" sin is the cause of all the misery in the universe.

I don't feel too certain I get the point. A finite sin is the cause of all the misery in the universe? Since there are many finite sins it would have to be the case that a particular sin would cause all the misery in the universe though all the misery in the universe had already been caused by other sins? Or what did I not get?

And how do you justify the claim. Peter steals Pauls hat and thereby commits a sin. How is that the cause of all the misery in the universe?

[Sparko]

I don't feel too certain I get the point. A finite sin is the cause of all the misery in the universe? Since there are many finite sins it would have to be the case that a particular sin would cause all the misery in the universe though all the misery in the universe had already been caused by other sins? Or what did I not get?

And how do you justify the claim. Peter steals Pauls hat and thereby commits a sin. How is that the cause of all the misery in the universe?

I notice you don't get a lot of points. and it's on purpose.

humans sinning caused the entire creation to fall according to the bible.

[Charles]

I notice you don't get a lot of points. and it's on purpose.

humans sinning caused the entire creation to fall according to the bible.

If you go back you will see that this does not answer my questions. That is rather obvious and I encourage every reader to check it out. So, again, you will rather attack my person and claim I don't want answers than actually provide the answers? I don't think it is an honest method you are using.

[Sparko]

If you go back you will see that this does not answer my questions. That is rather obvious and I encourage every reader to check it out. So, again, you will rather attack my person and claim I don't want answers than actually provide the answers? I don't think it is an honest method you are using.

I notice a pattern with you. you like to play stupid and ask dumb questions. when someone answers you, you ignore the answer and continue to "not get it" and when someone eventually tells you off for your gaming, you act indignant and claim you are being attacked instead of answered.

You have been given an answer. if you don't "get it" that is your problem. educate yourself.

[seer]

when someone answers you, you ignore the answer and continue to "not get it" and when someone eventually tells you off for your gaming, you act indignant and claim you are being attacked instead of answered.

So it's not just me!