Fanning the flames?

[Cow Poke]

Professor: assigns his class an essay by a homosexual humorist.

Also the professor: claims he's not trying to indoctrinate the students.

Now that's funny!

But was a touching story, the end of which has the professor deciding to teach in a t-shirt and jeans.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I'm still trying to figure out what academic freedom has to do with Illegal actions, trespassing, destruction of property, etc.

I could have written a short essay in reply to the above but it would have been a waste of my time.

This war in Gaza has exposed ongoing issues concerning claims about what is unacceptable speech and has highlighted the problems in debating difficult or unpleasant subjects. Academic freedom should provide a forum for rational discourse without resorting to partisan politics or stereotypes.

That is what is now lacking at Columbia and across many universities in the USA.

Dean Yarhi-Milo at Columbia made a statement to a student group alleging that the slogan “from the river to the sea” was a demand for Jews to be eliminated and therefore anti-Semitic. She also accused many of her students of inciting violence because of their positions in supporting the Palestinian people. The group Accuracy in Media doxed various students at Columbia because those students’ viewpoints disagreed with its own. More stereotyping took place when those students were described as being from Muslim, Arab, or Palestinian backgrounds. Many were not but once again identity politics was inaccurately invoked.

Violent protest is not my own first choice but when avenues for rational debate are denied or closed down. Or when senior university officials take a partisan approach. Or when a university president brings in the NYPD to arrest peaceful demonstrators, and the NYPD Commissioner stated that those arrested at Columbia week or so ago were peaceful. Then some will feel there is no alternative.

Concerning this thread’s OP an increased use of police to break up these demonstrations, which will include the attendant risk of police brutality, is going to exacerbate the situation. We are coming up to the summer and the exam season. There is plenty of opportunity for students to disrupt.

The following link from CNN https://edition.cnn.com/business/liv...-24/index.html details some of the protests and includes this map illustrating arrests at campus protests since 18^th April.

[Mountain Man]

But was a touching story, the end of which has the professor deciding to teach in a t-shirt and jeans.

Typical Juvie, giving us a random heartwarming anecdote from academia that never quite makes the point he's trying to make.

[CivilDiscourse]

I could have written a short essay in reply to the above but it would have been a waste of my time.

This war in Gaza has exposed ongoing issues concerning claims about what is unacceptable speech and has highlighted the problems in debating difficult or unpleasant subjects. Academic freedom should provide a forum for rational discourse without resorting to partisan politics or stereotypes.

That is what is now lacking at Columbia and across many universities in the USA.

Dean Yarhi-Milo at Columbia made a statement to a student group alleging that the slogan “from the river to the sea” was a demand for Jews to be eliminated and therefore anti-Semitic. She also accused many of her students of inciting violence because of their positions in supporting the Palestinian people. The group Accuracy in Media doxed various students at Columbia because those students’ viewpoints disagreed with its own. More stereotyping took place when those students were described as being from Muslim, Arab, or Palestinian backgrounds. Many were not but once again identity politics was inaccurately invoked.

Violent protest is not my own first choice but when avenues for rational debate are denied or closed down. Or when senior university officials take a partisan approach. Or when a university president brings in the NYPD to arrest peaceful demonstrators, and the NYPD Commissioner stated that those arrested at Columbia week or so ago were peaceful. Then some will feel there is no alternative.

Concerning this thread’s OP an increased use of police to break up these demonstrations, which will include the attendant risk of police brutality, is going to exacerbate the situation. We are coming up to the summer and the exam season. There is plenty of opportunity for students to disrupt.

The following link from CNN https://edition.cnn.com/business/liv...-24/index.html details some of the protests and includes this map illustrating arrests at campus protests since 18^th April.

The woman who "silently prayed" was also peaceful. You were for her being arrested. Don't go all hypocritical now. These students are ALSO breaking the law, ALSO making people feel uncomfortable. It sounds to me like you are suddenly changing your stance because NOW you agree with the cause.

As for academic freedom. Academic freedom has to do with not punishing teachers for the subjects the research and teach. Protests are none of that, so academic freedom doesn't apply to this situation.

[Sparko]

I could have written a short essay in reply to the above but it would have been a waste of my time.

This war in Gaza has exposed ongoing issues concerning claims about what is unacceptable speech and has highlighted the problems in debating difficult or unpleasant subjects. Academic freedom should provide a forum for rational discourse without resorting to partisan politics or stereotypes.

That is what is now lacking at Columbia and across many universities in the USA.

Dean Yarhi-Milo at Columbia made a statement to a student group alleging that the slogan “from the river to the sea” was a demand for Jews to be eliminated and therefore anti-Semitic. She also accused many of her students of inciting violence because of their positions in supporting the Palestinian people. The group Accuracy in Media doxed various students at Columbia because those students’ viewpoints disagreed with its own. More stereotyping took place when those students were described as being from Muslim, Arab, or Palestinian backgrounds. Many were not but once again identity politics was inaccurately invoked.

Violent protest is not my own first choice but when avenues for rational debate are denied or closed down. Or when senior university officials take a partisan approach. Or when a university president brings in the NYPD to arrest peaceful demonstrators, and the NYPD Commissioner stated that those arrested at Columbia week or so ago were peaceful. Then some will feel there is no alternative.

Concerning this thread’s OP an increased use of police to break up these demonstrations, which will include the attendant risk of police brutality, is going to exacerbate the situation. We are coming up to the summer and the exam season. There is plenty of opportunity for students to disrupt.

The following link from CNN https://edition.cnn.com/business/liv...-24/index.html details some of the protests and includes this map illustrating arrests at campus protests since 18^th April.

There is nothing preventing students and teachers discussing and debating such things in the classroom. They have the academic freedom to do that. But instead they have decided to riot and protest and vandalize the colleges. The students are not being rational or logical. They are being emotional and irrational.

[Juvenal]

Professor: assigns his class an essay by a homosexual humorist.

Also the professor: claims he's not trying to indoctrinate the students.

Now that's funny!

I have to admit it didn't occur to me that anyone would see a reading assignment as indoctrinating. Then again, I've read the Prince, and Mein Kampf, and even the Bible and didn't find any of the underlying narratives compelling, so maybe that's just me.

Would you care to flesh out your thoughts here? I'm likely to disagree, but I'd like to make sure I'm disagreeing with what you think, not what I think you think.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The woman who "silently prayed" was also peaceful. You were for her being arrested. Don't go all hypocritical now.

Her silent praying was not the issue.

These students are ALSO breaking the law,

By protesting?

ALSO making people feel uncomfortable.

And there you have invoked it. Anything that makes someone else feel distressed or uncomfortable should cease. That is not how the world operates..

As for academic freedom. Academic freedom has to do with not punishing teachers for the subjects the research and teach.

Yet academics been removed from their positions for voicing their opinions. This is where academic freedom has become skewed.

Protests are none of that, so academic freedom doesn't apply to this situation.

Free speech is accepted and protests are not necessarily violent as those arrested at Columbia two weeks ago proved.

[Diogenes]

Her silent praying was not the issue.

Still trying to peddling that falsehood?

Yet academics been removed from their positions for voicing their opinions. This is where academic freedom has become skewed.

Advocating violence tends to be considered overstepping academic freedom, but when the target of such advocation of violence is Jews, I guess that should be covered under "academic freedom".

[CivilDiscourse]

Her silent praying was not the issue.

It was.

By protesting?[/QUOTE]
You forgot trespassing, breaking policy, destruction of property.

And there you have invoked it. Anything that makes someone else feel distressed or uncomfortable should cease. That is not how the world operates..

Odd, You were all for squashing protests for (paraphrasing) making people uncomfortable.

I have never written that Vaughan-Spruce was "standing there with a sign and yelling at people" but demonstrations like the one in the photograph are the sort of thing in which she and her group participate.

She was in a restricted area where she had no valid reason to be - outside the grounds of an abortion clinic. And the buffer zone around the Roberts Clinic had been set up with the support of local residents as a result of the following [my emphasis]:

From September 2022 https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...c-say-25145022

Neighbours living near to a Birmingham abortion clinic say they are 'sad and frustrated' to see anti-abortion protests have resumed nearby weeks after a new 'buffer zone' was set up to protect patients and staff. A Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) came into force on September 7, banning all abortion protests outside the Robert Clinic in Kings Norton.

The order was granted after more than 2,000 people responded to a consultation following a rise in reports of anti-social behaviour since 2018. These included reports of large groups chanting, blocking women from accessing the clinic, protesters handing out graphic leaflets and approaching local schoolchildren, plus altercations with local residents.

Following the consultation, the size of the proposed PSPO map was reduced so as not to include nearby schools or churches. Signs were erected along the border on September 20, however residents say tensions in the local community have flared once again after 'pro life' activists were seen protesting at the edge of the buffer zone, outside the local Catholic church.

Read more - Patient 'cried in car' after she was 'harassed' outside Birmingham abortion clinic

The protests are understood to be organised by 40 Days For Life, which usually pitches up directly outside the Robert Clinic twice a year for 40 consecutive days. Neighbours claim the protests have already caused heated arguments in the street, prompting police to be called. They are now calling on the city council to extend the PSPO.

Local resident Liz Bates said: “We were concerned at the outset that the boundary of the buffer zone would not be sufficient and would be too great a temptation for the protesters to resist. Sadly they have decided to go ahead and ignore 90 per cent of the community who find their protest abhorrent.

"We are concerned that the increased prominence of their protest, with signs, will prove to be a flash point and bring more tension to our neighbourhood.

"The protest caused regular disputes and arguments outside the clinic, this is not going to be any different. We are calling on the council to extend the Buffer Zone further as this is causing distress and tension."

Another resident, Katy Buxton, said: “I am just so sad and frustrated, after years of campaigning we finally have the buffer zone in place and the 40 Days for Life campaigners have literally set themselves up on the edge of the zone outside the church. Unless the council and police can do something they will be there from 8am to 8pm every day for the next 40 days.

"To have to open your front door every day to this and to have to walk past them everyday is just soul destroying, and heaven knows how hard it is for the women using the clinic."

According to council documents, the size of the PSPO zone was reduced following written representations from the Archdiocese of Birmingham and meetings with 40 Days For Life. Responding to the consultation, a spokesperson for 40 Days For Life claimed its protesters had been subjected to incidents of spitting and having cars drive down the street towards them at high speed, swerving away at the last second.

On granting the order, Birmingham City Council said a number of activities had a 'detrimental effect on the quality of life' of those in the locality, therefore justifying the PSPO restrictions. A council spokesperson said: "Our Community Safety Team are aware of recent activities around Robert Clinic in Station Road, Kings Norton and we are working with residents and West Midlands Police to monitor the situation, as the remit of the PSPO cannot be extended unless there is evidence to support the need.

“The PSPO protecting the area around Robert Clinic focuses on ensuring people visiting and working there have clear access without fear of confrontation. Any local authority seeking to implement a PSPO must have robust evidence for its introduction, which guides the conditions and location – this includes concerns and complaints received from the community.

"The map used for the public consultation for this order was there to seek views and wider input; all contributions received during consultation were included in the evidence that informed the final scope and conditions. During public consultation we received contributions from 2,105 people and held a number site events, public meetings and conversations with residents, local councillors and campaigners.

“Evidence was collated and prepared by the council’s Community Safety Team and reviewed by the council’s legal department, to finalise the order’s conditions and area covered. The map was reduced as none of the evidence submitted supported the original wider map for enforcement.”

A spokesperson for West Midlands Police said: "We were called but did not attend and no one was arrested. We’re aware of concerns from residents and the local neighbourhood policing team are working with them and have been notified about the issues raised yesterday. We accept the right to freedom of expression and peaceful protest is a key part of any democracy."

BirminghamLive approached 40 Days for Life for comment and was told the group had 'helped many women in a caring, loving and compassionate manner' to prevent over 100 abortions. A spokesperson said: "40 Days for Life in Birmingham have been active for over 10 years."

They added: "The vigil participants have organised the campaign in a peaceful, prayerful and legal manner and have been careful to conduct the campaign in a legal manner, given the introduction of a PSPO. A PSPO in effect criminalises silent prayer, which we believe is disproportionate to the situation, while it also prevents women from receiving help in a loving and compassionate manner."

Pro life groups did not respect the buffer zone.

Yet academics been removed from their positions for voicing their opinions. This is where academic freedom has become skewed.

Who? Links.

Free speech is accepted and protests are not necessarily violent as those arrested at Columbia two weeks ago proved.

However, they already violated school policy in terms of time and place of protest. In other words, by breaking that policy they ended up trespassing, and breaking the law.

[Cow Poke]

I still get a kick out of the little idiots who wave the "Queers for Palestine" signs. I'd be happy to spearhead a campaign to raise funds to fly them over there.

[Mountain Man]

I have to admit it didn't occur to me that anyone would see a reading assignment as indoctrinating. Then again, I've read the Prince, and Mein Kampf, and even the Bible and didn't find any of the underlying narratives compelling, so maybe that's just me.

Would you care to flesh out your thoughts here? I'm likely to disagree, but I'd like to make sure I'm disagreeing with what you think, not what I think you think.

You think actively encouraging students to positively engage with certain ideas doesn't qualify as indoctrination?

[rogue06]

It was.


You forgot trespassing, breaking policy, destruction of property.




Odd, You were all for squashing protests for (paraphrasing) making people uncomfortable.





Who? Links.


However, they already violated school policy in terms of time and place of protest. In other words, by breaking that policy they ended up trespassing, and breaking the law.

It is rather amusing watching those who insisted that a woman standing across the street silently praying was such a threat to public order that she needed to be stopped, are now supporting much more invasive and destructive forms of protesting.

I guess it all depends on the cause. If the protest fits into what they support, then it doesn't really matter what they do -- their voices must be heard and heeded. But if the cause isn't one they support then any protest, no matter how innocuous, must be quashed to show that sort of thinking is unacceptable and won't be tolerated.

[Sparko]

I still get a kick out of the little idiots who wave the "Queers for Palestine" signs. I'd be happy to spearhead a campaign to raise funds to fly them over there.

reminds me of a meme I saw yesterday:

gameshow.jpg

[Sparko]

I just want to clarify my position. I support peaceful protests, even if they are anti-semitic and go against my values. People have a right to express their opinions and views even if they are horrible. People also have a right to peacefully counter-protest those people.

I don't support violence or vandalism, or stopping people from getting on with their lives (like blocking students from going to class, or stopping classes from being held)

[Juvenal]

You think actively encouraging students to positively engage with certain ideas doesn't qualify as indoctrination?

Do you think the professor was actively encouraging students to positively engage with certain ideas? Because he assigned an essay from a gay humorist or for some other reason?