Killing gays for being gay isn't homophobic. Warning them they might be killed is

[Roy]

It seems that the MSM is even too embarrassed to report on this as the stupidity is weapon's grade level, hence I could only find verification of it in places like Fox and the Daily Mail.

That's not necessarily an indication that the MSM is embarrassed. It could equally well be an indication that the story is utter bollocks.

A further indication that the story is utter bollocks is that Fox News's source for Hamas mistreating LGBTQs is a 'comedy' skit.

[Roy]

FALSE.

I've called you out on that false claim before. Stop repeating it.

That form of killing was done by ISIS. In the wider Muslim world, ISIS are/were a tiny tiny minority, and other Muslim states were strongly against them. Muslim countries in general are not ISIS. Palestinians are not ISIS.

Claiming that Hamas executes homosexuals based on actions carried out by ISIS is like claiming that Republicans execute homosexuals based on actions carried out by Uganda.

[Starlight]

Claiming that Hamas executes homosexuals based on actions carried out by ISIS is like claiming that Republicans execute homosexuals based on actions carried out by Uganda.

Indeed. "Uganda once did something. Therefore it's indisputable that America does it."

As with so many of Rogue's posts, the only possible response is: "Um, are you mentally okay? You don't seem to be."

[tabibito]

This reminds me of the Yusef Islam (aka Cat Stevens) incident. He was placed on a "no fly" list for pointing out that the "fatwa" death sentence issued against Salman Rushdie was a correct interpretation of Islamic law. He didn't exactly say he agreed with it, or with the bounty placed on Rushdie's head, but was simply pointing this out.

Homosexuals aren't tolerated in Islam - or in Christianity for that matter (as far as I can ascertain). But western culture has begun tolerating everything under the sun (including patronizing mental disorders) and Christianity is part of that soup. Is Palestine part of western culture? Would the laws there tolerate open homosexuality? I really don't know, but it sure sounds dangerous to me.

In Judaism, it was proscribed, offenders being subject to the death penalty. The prescribed penalty is lapidation: either throwing stones at the person or throwing the person at stones l (ie tossing the offender from a cliff top or from a high building) so as to kill. Mostly unenforced, though a couple of sects do not accept that it should be unenforced.
In Islam, it is defined as a major sin in the Koran, the Hadiths, and in scholarly Islamic literature alike. The prescribed penalty for offenders is the same as Judaism. Whether the penalty is enacted varies with the sect, location, and time. A distinct minority of muslims disagree with enacting the penalty.
In Christianity during the first few centuries, it was not permitted among congregation members. Penalty for offenders was exile from the congregation. From the late fourth century and forward, penalties have varied depending on location and time.

Hamas does indeed enact the death penalty for homosexuals. Simply googling for ... Hamas homosexual execute ... will return enough reliable results to show that Rogue's claim is valid.

[tabibito]

But that isn't homophobic violence according to these professors. Warning someone that would take place is what is homophobic violence.

To be fair, it doesn't seem that Hamas restricts its enactment of the death penalty to the prescribed method.

And, of course mentioning the fact (that Hamas has no aversion to killing gays) is violence against gays. Just like warning a person that a cup of coffee is hot amounts to threatening to scald that person.

[Starlight]

Hamas does indeed enact the death penalty for homosexuals. Simply googling for ... Hamas homosexual execute ... will return enough reliable results to show that Rogue's claim is valid.

???

The google results seem to consistently refer to one person who was accused of being an Israeli spy, of theft, and of homosexuality. His execution was not done by being thrown off a roof. Nor does there seem much reason to think it was his homosexuality that got him executed, as opposed, to, y'know, being accused of being an Israeli spy. Collaboration with Israel is the charge that Hamas seems to most commonly execute people for (typically 2-3 a year).

I see zero evidence for your implied claim that Hamas routinely enacts the death penalty for homosexuality, due to the lack of other such cases returned when your suggested google search is done. I am unable to find a single case of a Gazan being executed by Hamas for homosexuality alone.

[Ronson]

In Judaism, it was proscribed, offenders being subject to the death penalty. The prescribed penalty is lapidation: either throwing stones at the person or throwing the person at stones l (ie tossing the offender from a cliff top or from a high building) so as to kill. Mostly unenforced, though a couple of sects do not accept that it should be unenforced.
In Islam, it is defined as a major sin in the Koran, the Hadiths, and in scholarly Islamic literature alike. The prescribed penalty for offenders is the same as Judaism. Whether the penalty is enacted varies with the sect, location, and time. A distinct minority of muslims disagree with enacting the penalty.
In Christianity during the first few centuries, it was not permitted among congregation members. Penalty for offenders was exile from the congregation. From the late fourth century and forward, penalties have varied depending on location and time.

Hamas does indeed enact the death penalty for homosexuals. Simply googling for ... Hamas homosexual execute ... will return enough reliable results to show that Rogue's claim is valid.

There doesn't appear to be laws against homosexuality in Gaza. But from what I've read, it isn't exactly tolerated, and many gays have fled to Israel to avoid persecution.

[Mountain Man]

This reminds me of the Yusef Islam (aka Cat Stevens) incident. He was placed on a "no fly" list for pointing out that the "fatwa" death sentence issued against Salman Rushdie was a correct interpretation of Islamic law. He didn't exactly say he agreed with it, or with the bounty placed on Rushdie's head, but was simply pointing this out.

Homosexuals aren't tolerated in Islam - or in Christianity for that matter (as far as I can ascertain). But western culture has begun tolerating everything under the sun (including patronizing mental disorders) and Christianity is part of that soup. Is Palestine part of western culture? Would the laws there tolerate open homosexuality? I really don't know, but it sure sounds dangerous to me.

Worth pointing out that Christian intolerance of homosexuality is dramatically different from Islamic intolerance.

[Mountain Man]

"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them."

Yes, that was the law under the Old Covenant but is no longer applicable under the New Covenant, although homosexuality remains a sin and is strongly condemned.

Scripture Verse: 1 Corinthians 6

Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

© Copyright Original Source

[rogue06]

Nope. The writer of the article missed the point entirely.

When person B says to person A- "do you know what they do to people like you in X" - that is a verbal attack and threat on A by B. And that is the point they were making, not at all what your thread title suggests. There is no excusing of violence against LGBTQ+ persons in Palestine by pushing back on statements of that form.


Read more carefully.

So in jimland, being reminded what those they are now allying themselves would do if they ever got their hands on them is the real violence -- not being brutally murdered.

IOW, if someone back in the early 40s told a Jew who was holding a sign supporting the Nazis that the Nazi's wanted to and were exterminating Jews for being Jewish, the violence isn't the Holocaust. Instead the True Violence™ is being told that is what the Nazis are doing.

[tabibito]

There doesn't appear to be laws against homosexuality in Gaza. But from what I've read, it isn't exactly tolerated, and many gays have fled to Israel to avoid persecution.

Hamas' legal system does not operate only on the basis of the law of Palestine, but also on Sharia Law. Rogue's case has been overstated somewhat, but it remains that homosexuals are at risk of execution if someone in Hamas chooses to act on Sharia Law. It isn't a routine action though, and there is no active search and destroy policy. So it seems much the same as for Pliny's action WRT Christians.


Starlight Did you perchance restrict your checking to page 1?

[Mountain Man]

So in jimland, being reminded what those they are now allying themselves would do if they ever got their hands on them is the real violence -- not being brutally murdered.

IOW, if someone back in the early 40s told a Jew who was holding a sign supporting the Nazis that the Nazi's wanted to and were exterminating Jews for being Jewish, the violence isn't the Holocaust. Instead the True Violence™ is being told that is what the Nazis are doing.

ox's argument seems to be that simply pointing out the irony of homosexuals supporting an Islamic state is somehow a threat of violence by proxy.

[rogue06]

FALSE.

I've called you out on that false claim before. Stop repeating it.

That form of killing was done by ISIS. In the wider Muslim world, ISIS are/were a tiny tiny minority, and other Muslim states were strongly against them. Muslim countries in general are not ISIS. Palestinians are not ISIS.

Google appears to know of zero instances of any gay Palestinians ever being thrown off roofs. You are entirely making this up. And you've been challenged on this before, by me.

Question for you: Is this a deliberate lie on your part? You've been called out on this issue before. Here you say "the indisputable fact". You know that people dispute it, because I have disputed it to you. Are you knowingly lying to us by calling it an indisputable fact when you know it's disputed and has been disputed to you? Or do you just have Alzheimer's, and literally can't remember the last time you were corrected on this? Do you get a kick out of promoting lies for the sake of it? What is wrong with you?

Meanwhile, back here on Earth that is also the standard treatment for gays in several Muslim-controlled countries, including Iran (although they prefer hanging^[1]). In fact, shortly after instituting the penalty the then president of Iran notoriously declared that Iran didn't have any gays right after a string of public executions.

And Hamas isn't throwing gays off roofs because currently there are not too many tall buildings left standing in Gaza {yes, that's dark humor}. Instead, they prefer to shoot them {that isn't}. Like they did with one of their own military leaders, Mahmoud Ishtiwi, when he was accused of being gay. Apparently, he was strung up, severely beaten and then shot several times. IIRC, another Hamas member was beheaded and a video released of the murder, after he was accused of being gay.

So, you may be correct about the form of execution used, but gays are still executed for being gay by Hamas.

IOW, those who are LGBTQ++ would soon find themselves killed by their erstwhile friends if they ever went over there and joined them in solidarity.




1. since there is little to no drop in their hangings the victim is slowly strangled rather than having their neck quickly broken

[rogue06]

Hamas' legal system does not operate only on the basis of the law of Palestine, but also on Sharia Law. Rogue's case has been overstated somewhat, but it remains that homosexuals are at risk of execution if someone in Hamas chooses to act on Sharia Law. It isn't a routine action though, and there is no active search and destroy policy. So it seems much the same as for Pliny's action WRT Christians.


Starlight Did you perchance restrict your checking to page 1?

There is no search and destroy because gays there have learned the hard way to be very covert about it. Now, get a bunch of rainbow-flag waving folk chanting "We're Here! We're Queer!" and the like over there and I doubt anyone thinks that their prospects are anything but grim.

[Sparko]

Meanwhile, back here on Earth that is also the standard treatment for gays in several Muslim-controlled countries, including Iran (although they prefer hanging^[1]). In fact, shortly after instituting the penalty the then president of Iran notoriously declared that Iran didn't have any gays right after a string of public executions.

And Hamas isn't throwing gays off roofs because currently there are not too many tall buildings left standing in Gaza {yes, that's dark humor}. Instead, they prefer to shoot them {that isn't}. Like they did with one of their own military leaders, Mahmoud Ishtiwi, when he was accused of being gay. Apparently, he was strung up, severely beaten and then shot several times. IIRC, another Hamas member was beheaded and a video released of the murder, after he was accused of being gay.

So, you may be correct about the form of execution used, but gays are still executed for being gay by Hamas.

IOW, those who are LGBTQ++ would soon find themselves killed by their erstwhile friends if they ever went over there and joined them in solidarity.




1. since there is little to no drop in their hangings the victim is slowly strangled rather than having their neck quickly broken

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/21/gay-lgbt-muslim-countries-middle-east

In Iran today, lavat (sodomy) is a capital offence and people are frequently executed for it. In Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen and Mauritania, sodomy is also punishable by death – though no executions have been reported for at least a decade.

Among other Arab countries, the penalty in Algeria, Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia and Syria is imprisonment – up to 10 years in the case of Bahrain. In those that have no specific law against homosexuality, gay people may still be prosecuted under other laws. In Egypt, for example, an old law against “debauchery” is often used.

© Copyright Original Source

Source: https://reason.com/2023/10/27/the-contradictions-of-queers-for-palestine/

In 2016, Hamas militants executed one of their own commanders, Mahmoud Ishtiwi, for allegedly having sex with another man. Ishtiwi's allegiance to the group was clear: Just two years prior, he had overseen 1,000 soldiers and an assortment of attack tunnels. But not even his loyalty could save him after they lodged accusations he had engaged in homosexual activity. Prior to executing him with three bullets to the chest, Hamas reportedly tortured him by whipping him, hanging him from a ceiling for hours, and cranking loud music into his cell in order to deprive him of sleep.

Last year, in the West Bank, 25-year-old Ahmed Abu Marhia's severed head was found on the side of the road after he was murdered for being gay. The killer videoed the execution and shared it on social media.

© Copyright Original Source