DJT and TDS

[carpedm9587]

By moving to another state and then moving out, you're directly targeting the election itself, not merely trying to influence people.

I move from state to state all the time, Dio. I'm not doing anything different. And of COURSE I'm targeting the election. I "target the election" every time I try to influence people not to vote for DJT. You seem to be making a distinction without cause here.

[carpedm9587]

Why would she not just file a complaint with the police so the assailant can be sent to jail?

A young woman shouldn't think twice of accusing a prominent and rich business man of assaulting her? You can think of no reason why she might be hesitant?

[Cow Poke]

I move from state to state all the time, Dio. I'm not doing anything different. And of COURSE I'm targeting the election. I "target the election" every time I try to influence people not to vote for DJT. You seem to be making a distinction without cause here.

I'm glad you added "try", because I've never seen such determined division and such clear "battle lines".

[carpedm9587]

I'm glad you added "try", because I've never seen such determined division and such clear "battle lines".

This is true - the "Trumpers" and "Never Trumpers" will likely never shift their stance. I can say that I cannot imagine anything that would entice me to vote for DJT, so I place myself firmly in the latter camp. He has simply said and done too many things that run counter to my ethics for him to get my vote. And he is so demonstrably in this for himself, I cannot see him as anything other than a significant threat to our democracy.

But there are still those in the middle who are vacillating, unhappy with either man. Hopefully, enough of them can be convinced to eschew Mr. Trump to deny him another term in the Oval Office. One can only try - and hope.

[Sparko]

You make this logical error fairly frequently, Sparko. A broad statistical claim (i.e., "the economy is better") cannot be proven/supported by anecdotal stories. The entire world can be going to hell and one person doing very well, and that person's story does not prove that the entire world is doing well. That's why my claim was backed up by broad economic indicators and not that state of my retirement fund, which is doing better under Biden than it did under Trump, after an momentary dip after the pandemic. I suggest you explore your financial holdings and perhaps replace your economic advisor. Anyone with investments who has not been able to realize significant gains in the market of the last three years, which is now 27% above the point it was at when Trump left office, is not invested well.

Since my 401K depends on the stock market, and the stock market IS an objective metric to measure the economy by, I stand by my "anecdotal story" - and as how I am doing is very important to me, and what I will use to judge who to vote for. As I believe you will do also. As I said, We are just now getting past where the stock market was under trump. The first year Biden was in charge it continued to climb, but as soon as his policies started kicking in, the market dropped and is just now getting back to where it was.

The guy shows signs of age, absolutely. He has walked ten feet MANY times without tripping, and tripped a few times. He has spoken without a teleprompter, never mind reading from one, multiple times.

That you even had to write that Biden has walked 10 feet many times without tripping shows that even you think such a mundane accomplishment is something special when it comes to Biden.

He had pretty sharp, unscripted exchanges during the SOTU. He has answered many questions from the press, and dodged others, like any politician. He has indicated willingness to debate Mr. Trump. Otherwise, he has had no need to debate anyone since 2020 - so how can you know he is incapable? Many U.S. citizens live to 84 and beyond - so how do you know he will die before the end of his term? And if he does, so what? We have had presidents die in office before. The country did not cease to exist. As for the "no way he is actually in charge," you and many from the right continually make this claim, without much substantiating evidence. It's a nice story you've been telling yourselves for four years now. I see no more reason to believe it now than I did then.

Like typical of people with dementia, he has good days and bad ones. And yes, many US citizens live to 84 and beyond, but I don't think they would be qualified to be President of the USA either. My comment about Biden not making it 4 more years is based on just watching him on TV. He moves like he has one foot in the grave already. He has a glassy-eyed stare, loses his train of thought, talks to imaginary people. And the "so what?" if he dies, is that the only thing worse than Biden as President would be Harris as President. She is an airhead.

[Sam]

Since my 401K depends on the stock market, and the stock market IS an objective metric to measure the economy by, I stand by my "anecdotal story" - and as how I am doing is very important to me, and what I will use to judge who to vote for. As I believe you will do also. As I said, We are just now getting past where the stock market was under trump. The first year Biden was in charge it continued to climb, but as soon as his policies started kicking in, the market dropped and is just now getting back to where it was.

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That you even had to write that Biden has walked 10 feet many times without tripping shows that even you think such a mundane accomplishment is something special when it comes to Biden.

Biden doesn't trip every ten feet but he does have a slower gait than he did four years ago. Maybe some of that is age but it's probably better attributed to Biden breaking his foot in two places during the 2020 transition, leading to arthritis.

-Sam

[carpedm9587]

Since my 401K depends on the stock market, and the stock market IS an objective metric to measure the economy by, I stand by my "anecdotal story" - and as how I am doing is very important to me, and what I will use to judge who to vote for. As I believe you will do also. As I said, We are just now getting past where the stock market was under trump. The first year Biden was in charge it continued to climb, but as soon as his policies started kicking in, the market dropped and is just now getting back to where it was.

Actually, “objective” would be a stretch. It’s a
mixture of objective and subjective because it can go down or up due to economic fundamentals OR fears/hopes about those indicators. And your information about the timing of the market is simply incorrect. When Biden took office, the FT5000 was trading at 44,400 and was past its peak and on its way down. It is now trading at 51,492 and peaked at 53,000 a few weeks ago. All other indexes show similar numbers. If you put a ruler on the slope of pretty much every index, it trends continuously up through both presidencies with the pandemic infusion creating a spike under Trump and the post Covid supply chain and inflation issues a dip under Biden. Over all, it’s up 25-30%.

And no, I don’t use my returns to assess the market, because I know that is foolish. I use the standard economic indicators. Because they avoid the problem you have of not seeing the forest because you’re starring at your tree.

That you even had to write that Biden has walked 10 feet many times without tripping shows that even you think such a mundane accomplishment is something special when it comes to Biden.

No, It shows that I think your statement was absurd and I demonstrably false. Perhaps you were engaging in hyperbole, but I consider hyperbole to simply be another form of lying. Trump calls it a “soft lie.” I wonder what folks would say if Obama or Biden had ever said that?

[QUOTE=Sparko;n1579518]Like typical of people with dementia, he has good days and bad ones. And yes, many US citizens live to 84 and beyond, but I don't think they would be qualified to be President of the USA either. My comment about Biden not making it 4 more years is based on just watching him on TV. He moves like he has one foot in the grave already. He has a glassy-eyed stare, loses his train of thought, talks to imaginary people. And the "so what?" if he dies, is that the only thing worse than Biden as President would be Harris as President. She is an airhead./QUOTE]

I would consider most of this “ageism.” I assess a person on their abilities, not their age. I know many 90 year olds who would make excellent presidents, and many 40 year olds that should never get near the office. Age is irrelevant. Capability is relevant.

[Sparko]

ScreenShot00021.png

Thanks, That shows the dip in 2021-2024 that I was talking about nicely. And inflation is still emptying the wallets of Americans just trying to feed their families.

Biden doesn't trip every ten feet but he does have a slower gait than he did four years ago. Maybe some of that is age but it's probably better attributed to Biden breaking his foot in two places during the 2020 transition, leading to arthritis.

-Sam

Much of his tripping seems to be due to the fact he seems unable to bend his neck or look down very well. But everything about Biden is "slower" and worse than it was just 4 years ago. Just watch a speech from 2020 and now. You can easily notice how much more he slurs his words now, how more "stiff" he is in his motions. He is just not aging well. I think there should be an upper age limit on being POTUS, just like there is a lower limit. Being POTUS is a very stressful job and not for the immature or elderly. And yes, I include Trump in that.

[carpedm9587]

Thanks, That shows the dip in 2021-2024 that I was talking about nicely. And inflation is still emptying the wallets of Americans just trying to feed their families.






Much of his tripping seems to be due to the fact he seems unable to bend his neck or look down very well. But everything about Biden is "slower" and worse than it was just 4 years ago. Just watch a speech from 2020 and now. You can easily notice how much more he slurs his words now, how more "stiff" he is in his motions. He is just not aging well. I think there should be an upper age limit on being POTUS, just like there is a lower limit. Being POTUS is a very stressful job and not for the immature or elderly. And yes, I include Trump in that.

So do you simply ignore the fact that the markets are up 25-30% overall since Biden took office? That’s an 8-10% annual gain (roughly). If your investments are doing badly in the face of that, don’t you even WANT to consider that you may be badly invested? Or are you so dedicated to making sure Biden looks bad that you won’t even acknowledge the overall growth and would rather have your investments wallow?

I can assure you, most people with investments are not “flat.”

BTW, that post-Covid dip cratered on October 3, 2022 and growth has been largely upward since.

Also, I misspoke. I was looking at January 2022. Biden took office January 2021, and the Ft5000 was at 39,400 and still ascending due to stimulus money (mostly). So it’s actually up almost 35%.

[Sparko]

So do you simply ignore the fact that the markets are up 25-30% overall since Biden took office? That’s an 8-10% annual gain (roughly). If your investments are doing badly in the face of that, don’t you even WANT to consider that you may be badly invested? Or are you so dedicated to making sure Biden looks bad that you won’t even acknowledge the overall growth and would rather have your investments wallow?

I have a lot of my 401K in S&P500 index funds so when the market does good I do good. and vice versa. Do you see the huge dip after Sept 2021 till just a few months ago? During all that time the market was down and just now is growing again.

I can assure you, most people with investments are not “flat.”

BTW, that post-Covid dip cratered on October 3, 2022 and growth has been largely upward since.

From the end of 2021 until around December 2023, the market was down. It just cleared 36000 again at the end of 2023.

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[carpedm9587]

I have a lot of my 401K in S&P500 index funds so when the market does good I do good. and vice versa. Do you see the huge dip after Sept 2021 till just a few months ago? During all that time the market was down and just now is growing again.

From the end of 2021 until around December 2023, the market was down. It just cleared 36000 again at the end of 2023.

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On January 25, 2021, the S&P 500 closed at 3714. It is currently at 5264. That’s a 41.7% increase in three years. That’’s at least 13% per year average gain, factoring in compounding! If you have not seen those returns, something is wrong.

And that was accomplished without a massive tax cut for the rich, Or massive stimulus money. It was done in the face of a potential recession, supply chain problems, and the Great Resignation.

How do you justify ignoring those realities?

[Sam]

Thanks, That shows the dip in 2021-2024 that I was talking about nicely. And inflation is still emptying the wallets of Americans just trying to feed their families.

Much of his tripping seems to be due to the fact he seems unable to bend his neck or look down very well. But everything about Biden is "slower" and worse than it was just 4 years ago. Just watch a speech from 2020 and now. You can easily notice how much more he slurs his words now, how more "stiff" he is in his motions. He is just not aging well. I think there should be an upper age limit on being POTUS, just like there is a lower limit. Being POTUS is a very stressful job and not for the immature or elderly. And yes, I include Trump in that.

DJIA under Biden only fell below it's highest mark under Trump's term twice, both times briefly.

At this point in Biden's first term, the DJIA has risen 7,309 points. Compare that to its rise at this point during Trump's term (we'll use Trump's pre-pandemic high in Feb. 2020 instead of April 2020 to be fair), where DJIA had risen 9,405 points. So contra your claim that the stock market under Biden has just barely treaded water since Trump's term ended, the DJIA under Biden has seen 78% the increase it had during the same (general) time period under Trump. And this, again, is discounting all the costs of the pandemic for Trump by taking the Feb. 2020 figure instead of the April 2020 figure, while still imposing all the costs of the pandemic on Biden.

S&P 500? OK, same deal: Under Biden's term, the S&P500 has risen 1,302 points. In comparison, it had only risen 1,109 points under Trump's term by Feb. 2020. At this moment in time, Biden's already beating Trump with your preferred index. With nine months of Biden's term to go, S&P500 is within 225 points of matching its increase under Trump's entire term.

Your claim that "we are just now getting past where the stock market was under Trump" is categorically false and impossible to square with any numeracy.

Biden broke his foot and consequentially suffers arthritis. If you want to hyperbolically say that he's tripping every ten feet without acknowledging that injury, go ahead — but you're not making a serious complaint until you incorporate it.

-Sam

[carpedm9587]

DJIA under Biden only fell below it's highest mark under Trump's term twice, both times briefly.

At this point in Biden's first term, the DJIA has risen 7,309 points. Compare that to its rise at this point during Trump's term (we'll use Trump's pre-pandemic high in Feb. 2020 instead of April 2020 to be fair), where DJIA had risen 9,405 points. So contra your claim that the stock market under Biden has just barely treaded water since Trump's term ended, the DJIA under Biden has seen 78% the increase it had during the same (general) time period under Trump. And this, again, is discounting all the costs of the pandemic for Trump by taking the Feb. 2020 figure instead of the April 2020 figure, while still imposing all the costs of the pandemic on Biden.

S&P 500? OK, same deal: Under Biden's term, the S&P500 has risen 1,302 points. In comparison, it had only risen 1,109 points under Trump's term by Feb. 2020. At this moment in time, Biden's already beating Trump with your preferred index. With nine months of Biden's term to go, S&P500 is within 225 points of matching its increase under Trump's entire term.

Your claim that "we are just now getting past where the stock market was under Trump" is categorically false and impossible to square with any numeracy.

Biden broke his foot and consequentially suffers arthritis. If you want to hyperbolically say that he's tripping every ten feet without acknowledging that injury, go ahead — but you're not making a serious complaint until you incorporate it.

-Sam

Let me add to that a bit. On Jan 23rd, 2017 (about when Trump took office), the S&P was trading at 2,294. It was at 3,714 on January 25th, 2021 (about when Biden took office). It is trading at 5,116 at today's close. That means it increased 61.9% over four years, or approximately 15.5% per year, under Trump. Trump accomplished that by piling a massive tax cut (most of which went to the rich, most of which went for stock buybacks, and which never paid for itself as promised and added $1T to the debt in the time of a healthy economy) on top of an already healthy economy that he inherited, and then the government stimulus in response to covid added a bit of juice at the end. Most economists would tell you that 15.5% returns year over year are simply unsustainable.

Under Biden the S&P was increased 37.7% over 3.25 years, or about 11.6% per year. He accomplished that on the TAIL end of a pandemic, when everyone was (and many still are) screaming "recession," in the face of worldwide inflation, massive supply chain problems, "The Great Resignation," and Republicans casting shade on the economy every step of the way, and WITHOUT yet another tax cut for the wealthy.

Assuming presidents have anything to do with the stock market (which is dubious at best), I'd say both presidents have presided over a soaring stock market. How can anyone think otherwise?

[NorrinRadd]

Thanks, That shows the dip in 2021-2024 that I was talking about nicely. And inflation is still emptying the wallets of Americans just trying to feed their families.






Much of his tripping seems to be due to the fact he seems unable to bend his neck or look down very well. But everything about Biden is "slower" and worse than it was just 4 years ago. Just watch a speech from 2020 and now. You can easily notice how much more he slurs his words now, how more "stiff" he is in his motions. He is just not aging well. I think there should be an upper age limit on being POTUS, just like there is a lower limit. Being POTUS is a very stressful job and not for the immature or elderly. And yes, I include Trump in that.

Bad Orange Man is immature AND elderly! Best of both worlds! Another reason to vote for him!

[carpedm9587]

Bad Orange Man is immature AND elderly! Best of both worlds! Another reason to vote for him!

Thanks for posting this. I had missed the second part of Sparko's post.

Yes, Biden is aging. As he ages, his ability to manage his stuttering will likely get worse. His gate is certainly worse. Add to that his penchant for speaking off the cuff and getting some facts wrong, and he's going to make even more of his infamous verbal gaffs. He certainly would not be my first choice for a return to the Oval Office. He is, however, even with those limitations, a better president by pretty much every other metric than Mr. Trump. Of course, on policies we are going to disagree. But my primary objection to Mr. Trump is not about policies. It is about the very nature of the man. His narcissism knows no bounds and drives his every decision. It is why he doesn't want to be seen with maimed veterans (though I suspect he knows that is hurting him and will likely stage a photo op with injured vets anytime now). It is why he doesn't understand "what was in it for them?" when looking at a field of veteran graves. It was why he couldn't handle losing to Biden in 2020. It is why he cannot get through a speech without a self-indulgent comment, usually many of them. It is why he has repeatedly been reported wanting people who are loyal to HIM, personally, rather than the country as a whole. He has shifted his stance on abortion because he recognizes the extreme position is a threat to his win. He didn't release his taxes because he knew the numbers would make him look bad. He has taken over the apparatus of the GOP and placed "loyal" people to him at key positions. He has redirected a significant amount of his supporters contributions to his own legal defense, including GOP resources important to the upcoming elections. His fundraising has had fine print that permits him to shunt money anywhere he wants to, and most of it usually goes to himself for his personal needs, not the benefit of the party.

Time, after time, Mr. Trump has demonstrated that, when push comes to shove, he is the center of his universe. Such a man, IMO, is dangerous at the helm of the country. He was dangerous in 2016, but he made the mistake of surrounding himself with at least some staff who had the best interests of the country in mind and stood between him and his worse impulses: his "generals" and people like Mulvaney, McMaster, Esper, Christie, Kelly, etc. They and dozens of others saw the administration up close and have warned us of what it was like. He won't make that mistake again. If DJT gains the Oval Office again, you can be assured it will be staffed with sycophants and loyalists who will bow and scrape and say "yes" to any impulse he has, even the ones destructive to our democracy and our country. Removing us from NATO is a significant example of those bad impulses. Cozying up to dictators and strongmen-leaders is another. Mr. Trump has no patience for democracy - he wants the immediacy of decision-making and power. He has told us as much with his "dictator for the first day" comments, which he has repeated and stands behind. You cannot get a position in the GOP today unless you bow to the "you won the 2020 election" lie. It is one of the first questions they ask applicants.

As for the age of our presidents, what ever happened to "positions by merits, not membership in a group?" Isn't that the entire argument for the anti-DEI positions? Why is it being abandoned here? Personally, I think the only age limit should be "you have to be old enough to vote." Beyond that, if a person is capable - they are capable - regardless of their age, sex, race, ethnicity, gender, sexual-orientation, political party, religious affiliation, height, weight, etc.