Bernie and wife under FBI Investigation

[Jin-roh]

You're not just "calling someone out;" you're tarring an entire political movement negatively. And you repeat this characterization in this very post.

I got a little confused. Two different posts, from two different users, and I didn't see what you were implying.

So no, now that you've clarified, I think you did exactly what you accused Mountain Man of doing. I don't think I committed a fallacy.

Tu Quoque still?

My comment was directed to a specific fallacy. E.g. Association a logical concept with atheism, to discredit said concept. It's rhetorical hackery.

My post? I'm being upfront with my disdain for conservatism as it is now. I didn't imply that you shouldn't believe the law of non contradiction because of that though.

[Darth Executor]

Well it all started when I listened to Michael Medved talk to a conservative caller about the birther thing. You could tell that Michael Medved was really tired of explaining to his own wing of the spectrum that this was making the GOP look like fools.

I liked Michael Medved though. Haven't listened to him in years.

But in short I've been losing respect for conservative for about a decade. This last year really drove the nail in the coffin though.

The first problem you could think of was Birtherism, a theory Obama himself was peddling when he was in college and wanted to appear exotic?

[Jin-roh]

The first problem you could think of was Birtherism, a theory Obama himself was peddling when he was in college and wanted to appear exotic?

My divination powers are validated already!

[Meh Gerbil]

But in short I've been losing respect for conservative for about a decade. This last year really drove the nail in the coffin though.

I'm interested in something more current than the birther nonsense - the word 'zeitgeist' hinted at more of a underlying perspective than an individual issue.
I find that sort of analysis interesting because it could reveal a blind spot in my own thinking.

If I may offer an example of something on the left that I think is very destructive:
The tendency to label every disagreement as racist, sexist, homophobic, or climate denier - that is, to get to an emotional label as quickly as possible and then not listen past that point. The danger with that emotionalism is that while it may produce short term wins the lack of degree ultimately ends up completely weakening the charge. What I mean is that a liberal doesn't make a distinction between a KKK member and someone who is concerned about illegal immigration: they're both racists and both deserve the same negative emotional response. When the left tars everyone with that same level of guilt the result is something along the lines of President Trump. Today if someone calls me a racist I don't even care - the word has lost its meaning.

[demi-conservative]

To be blunt, I think the core that makes up the zeitgeist of conservatism has grown so toxic, that if a conservative were to make a statement that is non-partisan, fairly logical, and adheres to empirical (and often easily verifiable) facts, it would be in spite of their conservatism and definitely not because of it.

Looks like another Starlight. Shouldn't be hard too to make him triggered, raving with anger and hatred!!!

[Zymologist]

I got a little confused. Two different posts, from two different users, and I didn't see what you were implying.



Tu Quoque still?

My comment was directed to a specific fallacy. E.g. Association a logical concept with atheism, to discredit said concept. It's rhetorical hackery.

My post? I'm being upfront with my disdain for conservatism as it is now. I didn't imply that you shouldn't believe the law of non contradiction because of that though.

I'm still not sure I follow...but oh well. Had an insanely busy day at work and I'm pretty wiped.

Perhaps you missed my awesome thread on a relevant topic.

[demi-conservative]

Demi-conservative's misunderstanding

When you understand how to handle bipolar nature of yours so we dont' see again from you 'why not surrenders to libs?? or maybe sharia is better???' then come back and talk to me about who has correct understanding.

[demi-conservative]

Now, using my powers of divination, I predict many posts ... perhaps some including news links... that argue that liberals do this too, are the ones who are really doing this, the mainstream media is bad, and maybe even 'because the founding fathers.'

Libtard, projecting very very furiously: blah blah blah conservatives are very very bad in many many ways. you conservatives will point out I'm just projecting!!

Conservatives: you are projecting, libtard.

Libtard: I called it! I'm so clever!!!!!

[One Bad Pig]

But in short I've been losing respect for conservative for about a decade. This last year really drove the nail in the coffin though.

Ah, so you ARE painting with a broad brush. And here I thought you might have reasonable points to make.

Silly me.

[Jin-roh]

I'm still not sure I follow...but oh well. Had an insanely busy day at work and I'm pretty wiped.

Perhaps you missed my awesome thread on a relevant topic.

That thread is quite funny.

[Jin-roh]

Ah, so you ARE painting with a broad brush. And here I thought you might have reasonable points to make.

Silly me.

Reason has little to do with conservationism any more.

[One Bad Pig]

Reason has little to do with conservationism any more.

I'm not seeing a whole lot on the other side either - hence my correction of your post a couple pages ago.

[Jin-roh]

I'm interested in something more current than the birther nonsense - the word 'zeitgeist' hinted at more of a underlying perspective than an individual issue.
I find that sort of analysis interesting because it could reveal a blind spot in my own thinking.

Well it's been a rather long process. I could give bullet points...

1. System justification - it's a measurable manner of thinking. When associated with conservationism, it manifests as habituated tendency to invent invoke reasons for the status quo. This is one reason why 'because the founder fathers' is often as far as many conservatives think reason needs to go. This is cognitive bias that I think is bad.

2. Negativity or fear bias. - This is also measured in conservatives. While fear or negativity are not necessarily bad, I've grown tired of the fear appeals often invoked by conservativism.

3. The Religious right. I can't say what I think about the religious right without getting a warning from a mod, but the short story is this: It's not that I think they represent Christianity poorly, it's that I don't think they represent Christianity at all. I'm not speaking in hyperbole when I say they would be more consistent if they converted to Mormonism.

4. Fake News - specifically defined as cynically written pseudo-journalism, designed to appeal to prejudices, for the purposes of generating ad revenue and click bait, and is with little goals beyond money- is primarily a conservative problem. This is supported by at least two significant studies of large sample sets plus peer review and the word of a Fake News businessman himself.

5. The least educated counties are consistently the most red, despite that Libertarian leaning conservatives love Jefferson, who had high standards and high hopes for liberal arts and scientific education.

I suppose I could go on, but these might be the most egregious examples confined to conservative thinking (as opposed to specific examples of conservative policy). The fourth one is most frustrating, as the people who profit of conservative spite aren't exactly hiding their intentions. One would think that conservative would be irritated that they were played for a fool, exploited for whatever beliefs or hatred they have, and reconsider how they get their information. Instead, the "fake news" term has been appropriated and invoked beside all the things conservatives have said about the "MSM" since the age of the dinosaurs.

Hard to take people seriously if they won't clean up their own house, but if someone wants to throw up another link about how eeeeeeevil MSNBC is, I'm certainly not going to stop them.

If I may offer an example of something on the left that I think is very destructive:
The tendency to label every disagreement as racist, sexist, homophobic, or climate denier - that is, to get to an emotional label as quickly as possible and then not listen past that point.

I'm certainly not here to defend any of the sins of the left. I actually bite my tongue around my far left friends, and even got in a facebook fight with one once. I had the audacity to refer to court documents and witness statements for cop/unnarmed black teen shooting! I also dislike the whole "black people cannot be racist", because (especially!) the definition of 'racism is prejudice plus power' and 'black people cannot be racist' leads to a pretty self defeating conclusion.

The danger with that emotionalism is that while it may produce short term wins the lack of degree ultimately ends up completely weakening the charge. What I mean is that a liberal doesn't make a distinction between a KKK member and someone who is concerned about illegal immigration: they're both racists and both deserve the same negative emotional response. When the left tars everyone with that same level of guilt the result is something along the lines of President Trump. Today if someone calls me a racist I don't even care - the word has lost its meaning.

Liberals think of white supremacy as an unconscious analog ("to what degree is behavior or idea part of white supremacy?") as opposed to some conscious, radical, and binary commitment ("yes I will shoot people at the black church.").

I can't really take conservationism seriously on immigration either. I used to think they it had genuine concerns between "immigrant" and "illegal border crosser" but at this point, I really do think it's more often a legally sophisticated way of saying "I don't like brown people who speak with accents. They scare me." I do also think it is true that "whitesplaining" is a thing, and a rather obnoxious one, in that it is dogmatic insistence white people do all the talking about racism.

[Darth Executor]

if you're gonna complain about a lack of education you might want to learn the difference between conservatism and conservationism.

[Jin-roh]

if you're gonna complain about a lack of education you might want to learn the difference between conservatism and conservationism.

True.

Conservatives aren't really into that either.