UK woman arrested for silently praying across from abortion clinic

[Gondwanaland]

If she was loitering in an area where she should not have been

The order does not prohibit her presence in the area. Nice try.

under the designated PSPO she was liable to be approached and possibly arrested if she refused to co-operate.

Nope. According to the order, the person has to be asked to move along, and only then could they be subject to any action. She was arrested for violating the other part, namely the 'protesting', for her silent prayer.

As the link notes, had she been a pro-choice protester she would have been liable to the same penalties.

But she wasn't any sort of protestor.

So it is nothing to do with prayer, despite the attempts by her own group and several here to make it so.

Again, this is demonstrably false. Her arrest was for violating the order. The order, which you can read, as I linked it after reading it myself, is about protest, harassment, etc., in the area of people in the clinic or going to the clinic. Her silent prayer was taken by the police to meet that, and she was arrested for violating because of said silent prayer. You might desperately want this to have nothing to do with the prayer, but the facts do not support your desperate feelings.

And again: this is not the first time a woman has been arrested for silent prayer near an abortion clinic in the UK

However, if you to contend the issue I suggest you take your complaint to Birmingham City Council and the West Midlands Police.

No, the legal group helping represent her can do that. I'm here talking to you, not to the Birmingham City Council or the West Midlands Police, hun.

[rogue06]

In the Fox News video clip the officer clearly states "then you are under arrest" after she has declined to voluntarily accompany them. She also appears to be standing by the hedge that surrounds the clinic and there appear to be residential properties across the street.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ng/ar-AA15zTaa

Didn't even read your own link which directly falsifies your claim

The clip shows the woman silently standing on a curb across from an abortion clinic

She was across the street from the abortion mill.

[Cow Poke]

...
So it is nothing to do with prayer....

Funny, then, that the officer specifically asked about that very matter.

[rogue06]

Quite. It has been very patiently explained by Eider, H_A and others on here why she was arrested, and why it wasn't merely because this woman was praying. That people still pretend not to understand at this point is merely deliberate obtuseness.

Fortunately, people like this particular woman are a relative minority. Though abortion is a big part of the manufactured culture wars in the US, it isn't one of the ones that has made its way across the pond. And this is despite our performatively awful conservative government who love to create all sorts of reasons to distract their base.

Sorry, but the evidence all indicates that praying is what she was arrested for. A similar case in Liverpool also make it crystal clear that praying is what that arrest was for.

You can continue to claim otherwise but the simple facts of the case are just not on your side.

[DesertBerean]

Funny thing, that --- when Christians are told they can't do something regarding the exercising of their faith, many of us tend to double down.

Yep, we in California showed Newsome and his cohorts a thing or two when they told us to stop singing.

[DesertBerean]

Interesting, I was rewatching the video in its entirety and something the officer said about remaining silent at the beginning sent me down a rabbithole. Apparently in the UK you do not have a true right to remain silent. You CAN but it can later be used against you in court - indeed if you do not answer any questions it can be used in court as an admission of guilt, etc.. Never knew that, and quite disturbing as someone from the US.

That is something I've encountered in a lot of British literature....the right to be silent in the UK is not quite the same as what it is in the USA.

[firstfloor]

Let's see if it's possible for you to make a coherent post that even Shuny would understand.

What was the violation of the law she committed?

She was charged with breaching a Public Space Protection Order. It applies only to a limited zone around this one clinic, as far as I know.

[Cow Poke]

She was charged with breaching a Public Space Protection Order. It applies only to a limited zone around this one clinic, as far as I know.

The specific action for which she was charged is praying. That's actually one of the activities prohibited in the order.

[firstfloor]

That is something I've encountered in a lot of British literature....the right to be silent in the UK is not quite the same as what it is in the USA.

When arrested:

“You do not have to say anything. But, it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence.”

A solicitor would usually be present to assist the arrested person during recorded police questions.

[DesertBerean]

When arrested:

A solicitor would usually be present to assist the arrested person during recorded police questions.

LOL...as I said, it's not quite the same. :rolleyes: It's because of the British system that our founding fathers set up our judicial system the way they did. The UK system from what I hear has improved, but things are different still.

[Cow Poke]

LOL...as I said, it's not quite the same. It's because of the British system that our founding fathers set up our judicial system the way they did. The UK system from what I hear has improved, but things are different still.

Yup - Our founding fathers wanted to eliminate some of the abuses, and our Bill of Rights pounded that home.

[Cow Poke]

Yup - Our founding fathers wanted to eliminate some of the abuses, and our Bill of Rights pounded that home.

Maybe that's why we are citizens and Brits are subjects.

[firstfloor]

The specific action for which she was charged is praying. That's actually one of the activities prohibited in the order.

Arrested for an act of disapproval. How do we know she disapproved? Because she prayed, while hanging around in the forbidden zone.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downlo...n_road_b30.pdf

[Cow Poke]

Arrested for an act of disapproval. How do we know she disapproved? Because she prayed, while hanging around in the forbidden zone.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downlo...n_road_b30.pdf

Aha -- so it IS a fact that the reason she was arrested "because she prayed".

(and you're way behind, because we've already been discussing that pdf)

[firstfloor]

Aha -- so it IS a fact that the reason she was arrested "because she prayed".

(and you're way behind, because we've already been discussing that pdf)

It’s evidence of disapproval just. Arrested for an act of disapproval - any such act - in that place alone. Praying is an example but it does not matter how that disapproval is indicated. She chose to signal her disapproval by prayer.