UK woman arrested for silently praying across from abortion clinic

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Seems that IQs are a bit higher in Liverpool

Is a silent prayer on a public street a criminal act? Not according to the case of 76-year-old grandmother Rosa Lalor, from Liverpool, who has successfully challenged a penalty given to her while out walking and silently praying near an abortion facility.

When approached by a police officer during the lockdown in February 2021, Lalor had been questioned as to why she was outdoors. She answered that she was “walking and praying”. The officer responded that Lalor wasn’t praying in a place of worship, and that she did not have a “reasonable excuse” to be outdoors at that time. The officer claimed that Lalor was there to “protest”. The grandmother was arrested, detained, and issued a fine.

Merseyside Police have now conceded that such detention was wrong, and that Lalor was acting within her rights, indeed having a “reasonable excuse” to be outdoors praying.

And an admission that her supposed offense was praying. Can't have any of that outside any designated place of worship.

It was during lock-down.

However, remember that this is a society where a police officer suggested that a barrister holding a blank sheet of paper might risk arrest. And where police officers were overly physical with women at a candlelit vigil.

[Cow Poke]

Moreover, it makes clear what the offense was -- praying in public.

Not wanting to go through the entire thread again, has it been made clear what this "court order" was? An actual citation?

[Gondwanaland]

That does not presuppose some staff were not there. Nor that local residents might have recognised her.

She was not arrested for praying she was arrested for not voluntarily accompanying the police officers to the police station, as the officer initially requested.

False. She was arrested and charged for he silentr prayer being a violation of the protection order. She was not arrested and charged for not voluntarily accompanying police officers somewhere.

[Gondwanaland]

Not wanting to go through the entire thread again, has it been made clear what this "court order" was? An actual citation?

It's a 'protection order' that establishes some distance cordon around the abortion clinic in which protest is not allowed.

[Cow Poke]

It's a 'protection order' that establishes some distance cordon around the abortion clinic in which protest is not allowed.

Yes, sir - I get that - I was just wondering if a cite had been made to that actual protection order. And, yes, maybe I missed it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

False. She was arrested and charged for he silentr prayer being a violation of the protection order. She was not arrested and charged for not voluntarily accompanying police officers somewhere.

In the Fox News video clip the officer clearly states "then you are under arrest" after she has declined to voluntarily accompany them. She also appears to be standing by the hedge that surrounds the clinic and there appear to be residential properties across the street.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ng/ar-AA15zTaa

[Gondwanaland]

In the Fox News video clip the officer clearly states "then you are under arrest" after she has declined to voluntarily accompany them.

Again, she was not charged or arrested for not accompanying an officer to the station. That's not an arrestable offence. She was charged with her prayer violating the Public Order.

And if you'd listened to the clip further after the part where you heard what you wanted to hear, the officer states clearly why he was arresting her: under suspicion of failing to comply with the Public Spaces Protection Order. Not for not voluntarily accompanying them.

She also appears to be standing by the hedge that surrounds the clinic and there appear to be residential properties across the street.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ng/ar-AA15zTaa

She's on a public sidewalk. There are residential properties all around, because the clinic is a repurposed house inside a residential area. Not sure how this is relevant.

[Gondwanaland]

Yes, sir - I get that - I was just wondering if a cite had been made to that actual protection order. And, yes, maybe I missed it.

I don't believe anyone has, so I did a bit of sleuthing. Here's the webpage from Birmingham City Council where you can download the PDF of the protection order in question: https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downlo...ation_road_b30

[Cow Poke]

I don't believe anyone has, so I did a bit of sleuthing. Here's the webpage from Birmingham City Council where you can download the PDF of the protection order in question: https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/downlo...ation_road_b30

Thank you, sir! I'll give it a gander.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Again, she was not charged or arrested for not accompanying an officer to the station. That's not an arrestable offence. She was charged with her prayer violating the Public Order.

No her praying did not violate the PSPO. Her presence on that spot did. As the link below states, had she been a pro-choice individual she could also have risked arrest.

My emphasis:

https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk...-consultation/

Feedback updated 15 Nov 2022

We asked


After an unprecedented response to the Robert Clinic Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) public consultation. We received more than 2,100 completed questionnaires from members of the public.

We can announce that the public were in overwhelming support of the introduction of a PSPO to protect service users and staff who attend the clinic from both pro-life and pro-choice vigils/protests.

Taking into consideration public opinion, evidence and submissions from representatives from both pro-ife and pro-choice groups we have made some amendments to the draft order.

The order was signed off by both Birmingham City Council and West Midlands Police on 7 September 2022 and will go live on Friday 16 September once the street signage has been installed.

A copy of the legal order will be published on the council’s website within the community safety section.

The summary report may be read here:

https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk...onoutcomes.pdf

Robert Clinic PSPO consultation: Summary report This report was created on Friday 16 September 2022 at 11:42 and includes 2105 responses. The activity ran from 04/04/2022 to 23/05/2022.

[Cow Poke]

Thank you, sir! I'll give it a gander.

So, from that....

THIS ORDER

is made by Birmingham City Council (the Council) under section 59 of the AntiSocial Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, because the council is satisfied on reasonable grounds that there are a number of activities, carried out or are likely to be carried out in a public space namely the area within and surrounding Station Road, Birmingham, B30, shown outlined on the map attached ( the restricted area) that have had, or are likely to have, a detrimental effect on the quality of life of those in the locality. The effect or likely effect of these activities is of a persistent or continuing nature such as to make these activities unreasonable, and justifies the restrictions imposed in this order. The Council has had regard to the rights and freedoms set out in the European Convention on Human Rights. The Council has had particular regard to the rights and freedoms set out in Article 10 ( right of freedom of expression) and Article 11 ( right of assembly) of the European Convention on Human Rights and has concluded that the restrictions on such rights and freedoms imposed by this Order are lawful, necessary and proportionate.

THE ACTIVITIES

The Activities prohibited by the Order are:

• i Protesting, namely engaging in any act of approval or disapproval or attempted act of approval or disapproval, with respect to issues related to abortion services, by any means. This includes but is not limited to graphic, verbal or written means, prayer or counselling,
• ii Interfering, or attempting to interfere, whether verbally or physically, with a Robert Clinic service user, visitor or member of staff,
• iii Intimidating or harassing, or attempting to intimidate or harass,
  • a Robert Clinic service user, visitor or a member of staff,
• iv Recording or photographing a Robert Clinic service user, visitor or member of staff or
• v Displaying any text or images relating directly or indirectly to the termination of pregnancy.

THE PROHIBITION 5.

A person shall not engage in any of the Activities anywhere within the restricted area as shown outlined in red on the attached map

wow - talk about a "police state" situation! And prayer is illegal!!!

[Gondwanaland]

Interesting, I was rewatching the video in its entirety and something the officer said about remaining silent at the beginning sent me down a rabbithole. Apparently in the UK you do not have a true right to remain silent. You CAN but it can later be used against you in court - indeed if you do not answer any questions it can be used in court as an admission of guilt, etc.. Never knew that, and quite disturbing as someone from the US.

[Cow Poke]

Interesting, I was rewatching the video in its entirety and something the officer said about remaining silent at the beginning sent me down a rabbithole. Apparently in the UK you do not have a true right to remain silent. You CAN but it can later be used against you in court - indeed if you do not answer any questions it can be used in court as an admission of guilt, etc.. Never knew that, and quite disturbing as someone from the US.

Another reason we needed to rebel against the Brits!

[Gondwanaland]

No her praying did not violate the PSPO. Her presence on that spot did. As the link below states, had she been a pro-choice individual she could also have risked arrest.

My emphasis:

https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk...-consultation/

Feedback updated 15 Nov 2022

We asked


After an unprecedented response to the Robert Clinic Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) public consultation. We received more than 2,100 completed questionnaires from members of the public.

We can announce that the public were in overwhelming support of the introduction of a PSPO to protect service users and staff who attend the clinic from both pro-life and pro-choice vigils/protests.

Taking into consideration public opinion, evidence and submissions from representatives from both pro-ife and pro-choice groups we have made some amendments to the draft order.

The order was signed off by both Birmingham City Council and West Midlands Police on 7 September 2022 and will go live on Friday 16 September once the street signage has been installed.

A copy of the legal order will be published on the council’s website within the community safety section.

The summary report may be read here:

https://www.birminghambeheard.org.uk...onoutcomes.pdf

Robert Clinic PSPO consultation: Summary report This report was created on Friday 16 September 2022 at 11:42 and includes 2105 responses. The activity ran from 04/04/2022 to 23/05/2022.

False. Presence on the sidewalk near the site is not an arrestable offence (if it were there's a lot of residents, including the jogger in the video, who would be arrested). It is the protesting, etc., which IS. The officers decided that the potential mental prayer met that definition and violated the order. She was not protesting. She was not speaking. She was not holding a sign. She was standing on the sidewalk, possibly praying inside her noggin. And that is what she was arrested for, as a 'violation' of the PSPO. For her potential prayer. Not her presence.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

False. Presence on the sidewalk near the site is not an arrestable offence (if it were there's a lot of residents, including the jogger in the video, who would be arrested). It is the protesting, etc., which IS. The officers decided that the potential mental prayer met that definition and violated the order. She was not protesting. She was not speaking. She was not holding a sign. She was standing on the sidewalk, possibly praying inside her noggin. And that is what she was arrested for, as a 'violation' of the PSPO. For her potential prayer. Not her presence.

If she was loitering in an area where she should not have been under the designated PSPO she was liable to be approached and possibly arrested if she refused to co-operate. As the link notes, had she been a pro-choice protester she would have been liable to the same penalties.

So it is nothing to do with prayer, despite the attempts by her own group and several here to make it so.

However, if you to contend the issue I suggest you take your complaint to Birmingham City Council and the West Midlands Police.