Taken out of context apparently, but an unfortunate reference.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Codswallop



Paul claimed that it was obedience to the gospel



nope.



more codswallop



They accidentally got some things right it seems.



contra Peter. On what grounds?



Another accidentally correct; insofar as it goes. Where is training in righteousness, for example?



~6300 years agone? I think God would be astounded by the information.



That page continues with some other "interesting" comments.





Important? possibly.



Nope. Not after the first sentence, that is.

The substance is not a sin. Overindulgence in the substance is.

Accords with scripture - though Old Testament references are not germane.

The use of contraceptives is not a sin.

Worldliness can be classed as a sin, but none of the listed points can be automatically classed as worldliness.

What was it they just said about legalism? Everyone is a sinner doesn't mean that everyone continues to sin.

Strictly as a last resort, yes.


Anyone who does not have access to the authorities conferred by the Holy Spirit pretty much has to say that: otherwise they have to admit they might have something wrong.



So I have always thought - perhaps I should reconsider.



Jesus, Paul, Peter would be astounded.
(the next three aren't clear enough in meaning.)



Trinity doctrine is badly flawed, but rejecting the core precepts would require rejection of scripture.

.

They believe it. Who are you to say they are wrong?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The Bible doesn't tell us if the woman in question was actually guilty of adultery, only that she had been accused in an attempt to trick Jesus.

Where is the textual evidence this was a "trick"?

Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery

It's also a fact that the men who were threatening to stone her were in violation of the very laws they were claiming to uphold. First of all, there is no indication that due process had been observed. Secondly, if she had been caught in the act, then why wasn't the man being condemned right along side her? Finally, a public stoning of that sort would have been considered murder under Roman law. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" indeed.

The Romans took little interest in the religious affairs of their conquered peoples providing those religious beliefs did not affect the status quo and Rome's overall control of that specific province. Anything that threatened the status quo [e.g. in Judaea an individual being proclaimed as the King of Jews] were another matter.

Finally, while Jesus said he would not condemn the woman, he sternly warned her to "Go, and sin no more."

He did not condemn her.

Bible dunces like you love the "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" line because you think it ties the Christian's hands and prohibits him from condemning sin, but you invariably ignore the context in which it was said.

Jesus was not a Christian. He lived and died a practising and observant Jew.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

The people who agree with her are completely dispassionate; free from the influence and constraint of presupposition. Anyone who disagrees with her is blinded by prejudice.



And if you look overhead, you will see squadrons of turtles and pigs in a dogfight just below the clouds.

I am fully aware [and regularly amused by] the evidence that for those in the Inner Circle and/or The Brotherhood the rules are flexible.

[NorrinRadd]

And no spaces between words! However, that is an example of a much later MS.

ITSREASONABLYWELLKNOWNTHATTHEREWERENOVERSENUMBERSN ORCHAPTERORVERSEBREAKSNORSPACESNORPUNCTUATIONANDTH ATTHETEXTWASALLCAPS

Why are you banging on about the "later copy" in your image? It's usually accepted that *earlier* copies would show fewer changes from the no-longer-extant original mss.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

itsreasonablywellknownthattherewerenoversenumbersn orchapterorversebreaksnorspacesnorpunctuationandth atthetextwasallcaps

why are you banging on about the "later copy" in your image? It's usually accepted that *earlier* copies would show fewer changes from the no-longer-extant original mss.

itsnottheoriginalwedonothaveoriginalmsstheimageist akenfromsinaiticusinthefourthcentury

[NorrinRadd]

What about the pericope we find in later versions of John with the woman taken in adultery? According to that narrative Jesus offered no condemnation he simply told her not to do it again while also putting the question to those who would punish her [by stoning]

“Let anyone among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.

That is a remarkably tolerant little narrative. No condemnation, merely an instruction not to repeat the behaviour, and a reminder to those who would kill her, that no one is without sin.

Like the Pharisees and lawyers, you think you're clever enough to set a trap. Fail better.

[NorrinRadd]

Why confine Christianity to the USA?

They believe they are doing the Lord's work.

Stedfast Baptist Church describes itself as:

Fundamentals of Our Faith



CORE BELIEFS

WORD OF GOD – The King James Bible is the preserved word of God in English without any error and is word perfect. (2 Timothy 3:16, Psalms 12:6-7, Isaiah 59:21, Matthew 4:4, Matthew 24:35)

SALVATION – Salvation is by grace through faith. The only requirement of salvation is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart. (This means to put all your trust in the gospel: the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.) (John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10, Romans 10:13, Ephesians 2:8)

HELL – Everyone who does not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ alone for salvation will spend eternity in constant torment of flames of Hell with no rest day or night in the presence of the Lamb (Jesus) and his holy angels. (John 3:18, John 3:36, Matthew 10:28, Revelation 14:10, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 21:8)

ETERNAL SECURITY – Anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and receives salvation will never die and has eternal life. (Once Saved Always Saved.) (John 3:15, John 3:16, John 3:36, John 5:24, John 6:47, 1 Timothy 1:16)

TRINITY – God created the heaven and the earth and consists of three persons: The Father, Jesus Christ (The Word), and the Holy Ghost and these three are one God. (Genesis 1:1, 1 John 5:7, John 1:1, Ephesians 3:9)

THE FATHER – The Father so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son to die for the sins of the world. No man has seen the Father but he has been declared by his son, Jesus Christ, whom he sent to be the saviour of the world. (John 1:18, John 3:16, 1 John 4:9, 1 John 4:12)

THE SON – Jesus is the word of God, the son of God and God. He created all things and became flesh, was born of a virgin, and died for the sins of the whole world, was buried, and rose again. (John 1:1, 1 John 5:7, Colossians 1:16, Isaiah 7:14,1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 1 Timothy 3:16)

THE HOLY GHOST – The Holy Ghost is the spirit of truth and guides believers into all truth but he does not speak of himself.(John 14:26, John 15:26, John 16:13, 1 John 5:6)

BAPTISM – After putting all your trust and faith in Jesus, believers should be baptized by immersion. Baptism is not a part of salvation, but rather demonstrates the belief in Christ that they now have. (John 3:23, Mark 1:9-10, Acts 8:36-39, Romans 6:3-4, Colossians 2:12)

CHURCH – The church is a local congregation of believers and is for the edification and exhortation of the saints. (Psalms 89:5, Psalms 89:7,1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 14:3,1 Timothy 4:13, 2 Corinthians 10:8, 2 Corinthians 13:10)

CREATION – God created the world in 6 literal days (~24 hours) around ~6,300 years ago based on the chronology of the Bible and all science. (Luke 3:23-38, Matthew 1:1-17, Exodus 20:11, Exodus 31:17, Mark 10:6, Genesis 1)

That page continues with some other "interesting" comments.

IMPORTANT DOCTRINES

SECOND COMING (Day of the Lord) – Jesus Christ will return again after a falling away, after the son of perdition is revealed, and after the tribulation. (2 Thessalonians 2:3, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24)

RAPTURE (Day of the Lord) – After the tribulation, at the second coming of Christ, Jesus will send his angels to rapture the elect (believers) before his wrath is poured out on the unbelieving world. (1 Thessalonians 4:17, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, Luke 17:37,Revelation 7:9)

SIN – Sin is defined as a transgression of God’s law. This includes the entire Old and New Testament except where the New Testament expressly states that there was a change of the law. (1 John 3:4, Hebrews 7:12, Hebrews 9:10, Colossians 2:16, Romans 14:20)

Below is a list of a few major sins that our society deems acceptable but are not:

• Alcohol is a sin. (Proverbs 23:29-35, Proverbs 20:1, Joel 3:3, Genesis 9:20-25, Isaiah 5:22, Isaiah 28:7-8, Deuteronomy 32:32-33, Habakkuk 2:15, 1 Timothy 3:2-11, Titus 2:2-6, 1 Peter 5:8)
• All fornication (1 Corinthians 6:18), sodomy & homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27), bestiality (Leviticus 20:15), pedophilia (1 Corinthians 7:36), lasciviousness (2 Corinthians 12:21) are sin.
• Life begins at conception: therefore all abortion, morning after pills, IVF, birth control, etc. are sin. (Matthew 1:18-20, Luke 1:36, Genesis 16:11, Exodus 21:22, 2 Samuel 11:5, Ecclesiastes 11:5)
• All Worldliness (1 John 2:15, James 4:4), Modernism (Ecclesiastes 1:9, Malachi 3:6), Feminism (Titus 2:5, 1 Peter 3:7), Formalism/Legalism (Ephesians 2:8), and Ecumenicalism (2 Timothy 4:3, Galatians 1:9) are sin.
• Everyone is a sinner but certain sins should be punished with the death penalty by the government such as: murder (Numbers 35:16), rape (Deuteronomy 22:25), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), beastiality (Leviticus 20:15), adultery (Deuteronomy 22:24), witchcraft (Leviticus 20:27), striking/cursing your parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), and any other capital punishment outlined in the Old Testament which is not expressly done away with in the New Testament. (ie. Sabbath).
• Christians should not take the law into their own hands but they should kick Christians out of the church for any offence punishable by death. Additionally, Christians should be thrown out for being a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner. *Until this person repents of this wickedness they should not be allowed back into the church. (1 Corinthians 5:11, 1 Corinthians 5:6, Matthew 18:15-17, Ephesians 5:23-27)

FALSE DOCTRINES – All of the following are false doctrines:

• Charismatic movement (glossolalia, false signs and wonders, extra-biblical revelation, etc.) (Acts 2:6, Matthew 16:4)
• Calvinism (All five points are false, or twisted, or perverted) (John 3:16, Acts 7:51, Hebrews 2:9, Romans 10:13)
• “Repent of your sins” as a requirement of salvation (John 3:16, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-13)
• Racism/Zionism – Jew Worship (Unconditional Israel Support) (Romans 9:6, Revelation 2:9, Romans 2:28-29, Galatians 3:16)
• Ecumenicalism (1 Corinthians 14:33,1 Corinthians 16:1, 2 Corinthians 1:1)
• Pre-Tribulation Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17, Matthew 24:31, Mark 13:27, Luke 17:37, Revelation 7:9)
• Pentecostal Oneness / Modalism / Jesus Only (Rejecting the TRINITY – 3 Persons) (John 6:38, 1 John 5:7, John 8:42, 2 John 1:3, John 16:13)

Shield of Faith Baptist Church holds:

Beliefs


We believe that salvation is by grace, through faith, and not of works. This means that salvation cannot be earned by any work (church attendance, baptism, repenting of your sins, etc, etc). Salvation is putting your faith in Jesus Christ and that he died, was buried, and rose from the grave to pay for your sin. You receive salvation by simply asking the Lord Jesus Christ to save you.

We believe in the eternal security of the believer (once saved always saved). Just like there is nothing you can do to earn salvation, there is nothing you can do to lose it.

We believe that the King James Bible is the Word of God. We believe God inspired and preserved it.

We believe that Jesus is God in the flesh, and that Jesus Christ was begotten by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary.

We also believe that Mary did not stay a virgin, but had other children that the scripture mentions.

We believe in the autonomy of the local church. This means that we are independent of all denominations, conventions, and fellowships. We have Jesus Christ and the Bible as the head of our church and not some Pope, Prophet, President, or Board of directors.

We believe in the “local church” we reject the teaching of the “universal church”.

We believe that church membership is a privilege and not a right and church members are subject to be removed from membership and not allowed to attend the services if they violate the qualifications of church membership as set forth in the Holy Scriptures and the by-laws of Shield of Faith Baptist Church.

We believe that the unsaved will spend eternity tormented in a literal hell (and eventually the Lake of Fire).

We reject the teaching of Calvinism and believe that God wants everyone to be saved.

We believe that abortion is murder and oppose all forms of birth control that end life after conception (fertilization).

We are Non-dispensational.

We oppose worldliness and believe in a holy separated life.

We take a stand against the Charismatic and Ecumenical movement of our day.

We believe that sodomy (homosexuality) is a sin and an abomination before God which God punishes with the death penalty. No sodomite (homosexual) will be allowed to attend or join Shield of Faith Baptist Church.

This is not an all inclusive list; we believe anything and everything found in the King James Version of the Bible.

While to my mind both "churches" resemble cults, they both clearly believe they are practising what they consider to be "true" Christianity.

And both churches have had ministers calling for the death penalty for homosexuals and LBGTQ+ individuals.

.

They are extreme, and would denounce someone like me, a Pentecostal/charismatic. But I'll note that those pastors that allegedly called for the death penalty for LGBTQMYXSPTLK people went beyond the actual Statements of Faith of their churches.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Like the Pharisees and lawyers, you think you're clever enough to set a trap. Fail better.

This later pericope shows a remarkable tolerance on the part of the figure of Jesus as it is depicted in John's gospel.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

They are extreme, and would denounce someone like me, a Pentecostal/charismatic. But I'll note that those pastors that allegedly called for the death penalty for LGBTQMYXSPTLK people went beyond the actual Statements of Faith of their churches.

Oh definitely. I daresay they would have you on the pyre if they were given half the chance!

However, this is the problem with Christianity. Who is to decide which interpretation or opinion is "true"?

[tabibito]

I am fully aware [and regularly amused by] the evidence that for those in the Inner Circle and/or The Brotherhood the rules are flexible.

It is axiomatic that no-one is free from presupposition, including yourself and your favoured scholars, and that presupposition often passes unrecognised.

The influence of presupposition is very much reduced for those who actively seek and choose to counter it.

Unless you can accurately identify another's presupposition, you cannot identify how it influences a person's opinions.

So what are my presuppositions? So far your assessments (so called) have been wildly inaccurate.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

It is axiomatic that no-one is free from presupposition, including yourself and your favoured scholars, and that presupposition often passes unrecognised.

The influence of presupposition is very much reduced for those who actively seek and choose to counter it.

Unless you can accurately identify another's presupposition, you cannot identify how it influences a person's opinions.

So what are my presuppositions? So far your assessments (so called) have been wildly inaccurate.

Do you have a point to make?

[CivilDiscourse]

Do you have a point to make?

I believe it is "You are making too many assumptions, and it's clouding your judgement."

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

I believe it is "You are making too many assumptions, and it's clouding your judgement."

I note the chorus has appeared on stage..

[CivilDiscourse]

I note the chorus has appeared on stage..

That's nice. You asked a question of the point, and given that you apparently have trouble with reading comprehension, I gave it to you.

[Maranatha]

Do you have a point to make?

Have you determined your presuppositions yet?