What is a Woman?

[tabibito]

So you don't follow Jesus, you follow the unknown author of Hebrews in his post hoc attempt to try to pick and choose what he wants people to follow? Gotcha. That's why most Christians aren't actually Christians, they follow Paulianity (Paul being the 'traditional' assumed author of Hebrews).

The author of Hebrews was almost certainly not Paul (but a claim that it was only sets the latest possible date of composition as prior to 60CE). And yes, I will take the testimony of a writer, writing before 70CE, who was familiar with first century Koine Greek, to interpret what Jesus actually meant more reliably than a centuries later someone who is unfamiliar with the language.

All that in addition to directly knowing what eos an coupled with subjunctive verbs implies.

[oxmixmudd]

Stop telling them it’s acceptable, and continue to love them. Stop enabling them. THAT is true love, not letting them go their merry way to judgment.

So, let's see. They can't stop doing what they are doing, so the the solution is to tell them to stop or they go to hell? But they cannot stop. That means in your theology they are doomed to hell. Nothing can save them.

So how does a person that can't stop doing that which is sin get saved. In your world they can't. That means there are people that want to follow Jesus but because of something they can't control they don't get to do that.

And not to spoil the movie, but guess what- that is ALL of us. We ALL have things we struggle with we know are sin but can't stop. We try and try and try, and again and again it trips us up.

And I'm pretty sure we all have things we don't even think are sin but actually are. So there we go, merrily sinning all the time.

So I don't accept that there are people willing to follow Christ and make Him Lord that he will refuse to save. Now we can argue all day long about what a given person can or can't actually do in terms of changing their behavior, But in the end, I don't believe there is anyone God will refuse if it is their desire to follow Him and they are willing to do what they can to change.

For whosoever believes in Him shall be saved.

[oxmixmudd]

I wonder, would you say the same thing about a liar, a thief, a drunkard, an adulterer, a murder? That if they "find Christ and walk in his love" yet continue in their sin without conviction or repentance, that they will see God? That is very close to blasphemy, because the Bible tells us quite plainly that if there is no outward change in one's life, then there has been no inward change.

My scenario does not negate what the Bible says about the evidence of salvation wrt inward change. I suggest you take a little time and try to figure out why.

Hint: does God require all our sins be conquered from the day of salvation.

[mossrose]

So, let's see. They can't stop doing what they are doing, so the the solution is to tell them to stop or they go to hell? But they cannot stop. That means in your theology they are doomed to hell. Nothing can save them.

So how does a person that can't stop doing that which is sin get saved. In your world they can't. That means there are people that want to follow Jesus but because of something they can't control they don't get to do that.

I said YOU stop telling them their behaviour is acceptable. Their sin needs to be confronted. It can be done in love. It is NOT love to enable them by not confronting their sin and pointing them to repentance.

And not to spoil the movie, but guess what- that is ALL of us. We ALL have things we struggle with we know are sin but can't stop. We try and try and try, and again and again it trips us up.

And I'm pretty sure we all have things we don't even think are sin but actually are. So there we go, merrily sinning all the time.

The definition of repentance is to turn away from sin. Basically do a 180. And yes, we all sin, all the time. But we do not want to continue to do so. When we tell someone their lifestyle is ok in spite of what God's word says about it, that is not helping them to understand that they need to do 180. Repentance comes BEFORE we are forgiven.

So I don't accept that there are people willing to follow Christ and make Him Lord that he will refuse to save. Now we can argue all day long about what a given person can or can't actually do in terms of changing their behavior, But in the end, I don't believe there is anyone God will refuse if it is their desire to follow Him and they are willing to do what they can to change.

For whosoever believes in Him shall be saved.

Anyone who comes to Christ and counts the cost, which means giving up their sinful lifestyle, and repents of that sinful lifestyle, will be saved. God will not save the one who refuses to repent. God does not save the one who thinks he can have it both ways.

For whosoever believes in Him and repents shall be saved.


I'm done going around in circles with you on this topic. Whatever is going on in your life has caused you to wear blinders on this subject.


Back on topic.

What is a woman, ox?

[tabibito]

So, let's see. They can't stop doing what they are doing, so the the solution is to tell them to stop or they go to hell? But they cannot stop. That means in your theology they are doomed to hell. Nothing can save them.

And this would be different to telling a person that continuing to take heroin will kill them? Just how, precisely?

So how does a person that can't stop doing that which is sin get saved. In your world they can't. That means there are people that want to follow Jesus but because of something they can't control they don't get to do that.

The option to put to death the deeds of the flesh exists. The claim, "I am only human," is false for Christ's disciple.

And not to spoil the movie, but guess what- that is ALL of us. We ALL have things we struggle with we know are sin but can't stop. We try and try and try, and again and again it trips us up.

It is not a permanent circumstance.

Some struggles have to be fought to the point of shedding one's own blood (often enough, figuratively).

And I'm pretty sure we all have things we don't even think are sin but actually are. So there we go, merrily sinning all the time.

A sin that is unrecognised is not counted against the person (with codicils) until such time as awareness that it is a sin comes.

So I don't accept that there are people willing to follow Christ and make Him Lord that he will refuse to save. Now we can argue all day long about what a given person can or can't actually do in terms of changing their behavior, But in the end, I don't believe there is anyone God will refuse if it is their desire to follow Him and they are willing to do what they can to change.

For whosoever believes in Him shall be saved.

Saved as much from their bondage to sin as much as from anything else. The natural man is unable to stop from sinning (in the main), but Christ's bondsman is not wholly natural (Romans 8 explains the point, as it does each of the others).

[Mountain Man]

You believe the Bible was written in English? Deut 14, on the abominable things to eat (which includes swine, which I quoted), uses
תּוֹעֵבָה or uses the same word to .

תּוֹעֵבָה

I'm know it's the same word, you dope. I'm trying to get you to see to whom it is an abomination. One verse says, "This thing shall be considered detestable to you," and the other says, "This thing is detestable to God." It's an important distinction to keep in mind when trying to understand these passages.

[Mountain Man]

My scenario does not negate what the Bible says about the evidence of salvation wrt inward change. I suggest you take a little time and try to figure out why.

Hint: does God require all our sins be conquered from the day of salvation.

I detect a shifting of the goalposts. Your original statement very strongly implied that a man who claims Christ as his savior yet continues in his sins without repentance will see God, which is contrary to scripture.

Scripture Verse: 1 John 3

No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

© Copyright Original Source

[Gondwanaland]

Have it your won way, Gond. I'm sure it will all work out for you in the end. No point in discussing it further with you.

Couldn't handle the question, eh? Not surprised.

So, back on topic.

What is a woman?

Do you know, Gond?

A biological adult female with XX chromosomes. You certainly don't need a bible to answer it (indeed, the last place one should look for accurate science is the Bible)

[Gondwanaland]

The author of Hebrews was almost certainly not Paul (but a claim that it was only sets the latest possible date of composition as prior to 60CE). And yes, I will take the testimony of a writer, writing before 70CE, who was familiar with first century Koine Greek, to interpret what Jesus actually meant more reliably than a centuries later someone who is unfamiliar with the language.

All that in addition to directly knowing what eos an coupled with subjunctive verbs implies.

I agree, hence the quotes around the term traditional assumed author.

But again, you'll not listen to Jesus' own words as they don't suit you so you look to later attempts to get around them and follow those.

[Gondwanaland]

I'm know it's the same word, you dope. I'm trying to get you to see to whom it is an abomination. One verse says, "This thing shall be considered detestable to you," and the other says, "This thing is detestable to God." It's an important distinction to keep in mind when trying to understand these passages.

But there's not a distinction. He says a couple verses earlier eating the detestable animals is an abomination, using the same word that is used to describe 'crossdressing'. Both are considered an abomination. I understand that you don't like what that implies because that doesn't suit your taste buds.

[mossrose]

Couldn't handle the question, eh? Not surprised.

The question was already answered. You didn't like the answer. That's all.

A biological adult female with XX chromosomes.

On that we can agree.

You certainly don't need a bible to answer it (indeed, the last place one should look for accurate science is the Bible)

To a believer, science has to be filtered through scripture. But I won't be debating that with you either.

[Catholicity]

You have no idea what I'm actually saying, do you?

What im saying is that in the larger part, our children and especially our children's children have embraced this with open arms, and that what you or I might have thought of as what should be, or what is reality, is simply no longer how the next generation views the world.

It doesn't matter who embraces it. The entire world could suddenly embrace the idea that murdering in cold blood is perfectly fine and that wouldn't make it so. And as a Christian I would be obligated to still say it's wrong no matter who says it's right.

[Catholicity]

It is a broader field than just gender dysphoria, as is (merely) outlined here. And yes, any kind of dysphoria carries an increased risk of suicide. Where else does the patient go when the interventions, whether surgical or chemical, fail to reverse the underlying distress?

Honestly the similarities between eating disorders and gender dysphoria are absolutely striking and have even been recorded on MR/PET scans. Which means that treatment would be the same. Not hormones and not surgery, it would be cognitive behavioral therapy and dialectical behavioral therapy.

[Gondwanaland]

The question was already answered. You didn't like the answer. That's all.

Nope you provided no answer to my question:
But hey, let's say for the sake of argument that Jesus didn't mean what he said, and dietary laws magically poofed out of existence. Tell me the last witch or gay person you stoned. How many have you stoned in your lifetime?

On that we can agree.



To a believer, science has to be filtered through scripture. But I won't be debating that with you either.

Do you filter science on the classification of locust as 6 leghed animals thru scriptire that says they have 4?

[tabibito]

I agree, hence the quotes around the term traditional assumed author.

But again, you'll not listen to Jesus' own words as they don't suit you so you look to later attempts to get around them and follow those.

Jesus own words, as translated into Koine Greek, show that either of two conditions need to be met. That the writer of Hebrews endorses what is apparent from reading the relevant text itself, taking into account the grammatical presentation, is no more than a bonus.