University of Wisconsin stands by 'Problem of Whiteness' course

[Teallaura]

needs moar postmodernism

Ugh, now you're just being gross.

[Spartacus]

OOh, I gotta find that one when I have time - and I'd love to take you on on that! I take the position that they are mildly variant faces of the same thing.

They're certainly related, but we risk equivocating when we talk about someone who is complicit in institutional racism as being racist-- the term "racist" is a very loaded term. To say that many people are complicit in institutional racism is not to say that they are eugenicists or racial ideologues along the lines of Bull Connor or Margaret Sanger, which are what spring to my mind when one uses the term "racist".

[robrecht]

I'm not avoiding anything. I'm asking you to ask something that can be quantified.

Seer already answered that. But here's the course description:



Question away. But make your questions actually mean something instead of vague "some value" nonsense. And in response to my calling for the professor's job, it comes with clear precedent:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/11/...arks-in-class/
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/22815/
http://www.inquisitr.com/3581321/bla...efinite-leave/
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...st_tweets.html
https://diversitychronicle.wordpress...omology-class/
http://time.com/3882330/duke-professor-racist-comments/

So, as you can see, academia is rife with instances of calls for termination of alleged racism.

Sounds like it could be an interesting course. He could be a good professor or maybe not. I would not call for him and the university president to be fired on the basis of this course description.

[robrecht]

Here's a link to the course description in case others are having trouble reading what Bill posted:

http://african.wisc.edu/content/problem-whiteness

[Jaecp]

Alas, it's not in my area of work. I can only take IT classes. And it's not offered remotely. Wisconsin is quite a drive from Richmond.

Doh. I was all ready to mail you some books, which incidentally I read at the behest of one of my politically conservative mentors [yes, I have those. I'm only stupidly far to the left as it relates to this place], as back in the day Sam used to mail me CS Lewis's books on religion and the like.

Although, honestly, you could do worse than reading stuff like Bowling Alone even if it doesn't help you prep for a college course.

[JonathanL]

Here's a link to the course description in case others are having trouble reading what Bill posted:

http://african.wisc.edu/content/problem-whiteness

I can't take any course seriously that uses the term "woke" unironically.

[Jaecp]

If the course was renamed to "The problems of colonialism and the colonialist mindset" while retaining largely the same content, would that pass muster? Is mention of "whiteness" just a trigger-word for you guys for subjects that have been discussed by reasonable people for a century?

Haha, this makes sense to me

Pretty sure "problem" in the course description is intended to be taken more in context of postmodernism than in a simply practical sense.

Agreed, but I don't think the postmodernism of the naming scheme has factored into the people here who have been triggered by this

OOh, I gotta find that one when I have time - and I'd love to take you on on that! I take the position that they are mildly variant faces of the same thing.

Which is ridiculous on the face of it. Segregation era racism is explicit and intentional. Systemic racism is implicit and unintentional.

[Jaecp]

I can't take any course seriously that uses the term "woke" unironically.

But could you take a college class where a Professor fails to understand a newly created term and uses it in a funny way as a result?

[JonathanL]

But could you take a college class where a Professor fails to understand a newly created term and uses it in a funny way as a result?

Isn't that every course where the professor is an old loon who tries to be "hip", and "with it"?

[JonathanL]

Which is ridiculous on the face of it. Segregation era racism is explicit and intentional. Systemic racism is implicit and unintentional.

There's also the issue of reverse racism, which this course seems to be a prime example of, atleast if you read the course description.

[Jaecp]

Isn't that every course where the professor is an old loon who tries to be "hip", and "with it"?

Pretty much :D although one of them actually was, which was pretty neat.

Granted, it was my "Tier 3" class, which was a requirement to take one of a few special 400 level courses that were designed for students out of major, and the teacher literally studied how people interact on the internet for a living. Actually, this was the only class where it wasn't just those students. The other half of the class were all Digital Technology & Design (DTC) students so the class was basically 50% "Philosophy of the internet" and 50% "all you liberal arts and science degree types get to lead a bunch of website builders, photoshop geniuses and other programmers to rebuild a major, local non-profits entire website and social media and more"

Damn, DTC 475 was actually a really great class. The teacher told us how during the 2012 election he liked every single presidential candidates page during the primary and not all of his FB friends were aware of what he did for a living exactly and would yell at him for being a supporter of everyone running for office at one point or another :D

There's also the issue of reverse racism, which this course seems to be a prime example of, atleast if you read the course description.

Could you quote the entire course description and then bold the part that you think exemplifies reverse racism? I think, regardless of my somewhat silly argument of the absurd below, that a discussion on the course description demonstrating racism starts with that, no?


What definition of racism are you using? I share the same concerns voiced here

They're certainly related, but we risk equivocating when we talk about someone who is complicit in institutional racism as being racist-- the term "racist" is a very loaded term. To say that many people are complicit in institutional racism is not to say that they are eugenicists or racial ideologues along the lines of Bull Connor or Margaret Sanger, which are what spring to my mind when one uses the term "racist".

when speaking of reverse racism.

Let us say that the world is now doing "reverse racism" by which we can also call it by what it is "racism against white people" so we must now imagine what this is like. Is this class going to make a student in it, say, unable to go to the bathroom of their choice? Will the existence of this class increase the likelihood of a police officer stopping them for no reason but to stop and frisk them for drugs? Will it increase the amount of police in white neighborhoods such that when a petty crime occurs the white kid gets arrested while the black and Hispanic neighborhoods neighborhoods, which aren't heavily policed, allow their children to get by with an ass whoopin by their daddy and promise to never do it again and then they get their life back on track while the white kid gets an arrest record and ends up in jail because his dads in jail and he doesn't have any good role models?

Of course not. What I just said is REALLY dumb. This is some random SJW college class, not the prologue to some scary future. I'm white, too, incidentally and there is no way that I could pass for a non-white race because, hot damn, I am alabaster. I'm like German/English/Scandinavian. I'm a dirty blonde with a big red beard. I'm ok with this class. It really just ain't that big a deal.

[Meh Gerbil]

I see this college course as beneficial.
When I'm hiring I can check the college transcript of the interviewee and if I find this course on it I can trashcan his application.

These classes help us weed out those with emotional issues best worked out on some other business's healthcare plan.

[Spartacus]

Agreed, but I don't think the postmodernism of the naming scheme has factored into the people here who have been triggered by this

Ehhhhh honestly if it was just the postmodernism they were reacting against I'd be fine with their objections.

Which is ridiculous on the face of it. Segregation era racism is explicit and intentional. Systemic racism is implicit and unintentional.

Course description sez: "It explores how they consciously and unconsciously perpetuate institutional racism." It leaves the door open for conscious (i.e. intentional and possibly explicit) institutional racism.

[Spartacus]

There's also the issue of reverse racism, which this course seems to be a prime example of, atleast if you read the course description.

Y'all keep saying it, but I'm not seeing it

[Jaecp]

Ehhhhh honestly if it was just the postmodernism they were reacting against I'd be fine with their objections.

Do you think any of them were even reacting to it at all?

Course description sez: "It explores how they consciously and unconsciously perpetuate institutional racism." It leaves the door open for conscious (i.e. intentional and possibly explicit) institutional racism.

Point taken, although I believe that Teal was speaking significantly more strongly than what the course description says here.

Hmm, consciously pushing systemic racism seems quite an awful like apartheid and would then qualify as segregation style racism, no?