What is the issue over paid maternity leave?

[Cow Poke]

Always concerns about money.

Because only idiots think it grows on trees.

[Cow Poke]

That's the primary cause of financial problems in the US, people who are dumb with their money. I remember a political candidate in my state who was trying to be "one of the people" by telling us, "I'm just like you. I work hard, I have debt, I struggle to make ends meet," and I'm thinking, "If you can't manage your own money, then why would I vote to give you the power to manage mine?"

Yeah, we need somebody who can actually help people save more of their own money, and help increase the power of the money they have.

[Cow Poke]

Excuse me didn't you post this thread about paying women for maternal leave? You absolute knob.

Because the women could always take as much time off as they wish without pay! Who needs money!?!?!?!

[Mountain Man]

You do not appear overly familiar with vintage 1930s Hollywood movies. George Cukor directed The Women in 1939 .

It was an adaptation for the screen of Claire Booth Luce's 1936 play of the same title and Marjorie Main played the character of Lucy in both the stage production and the movie. Lucy runs the ranch in Reno where various characters stay while getting their divorces.

And does the character in question leave in a huff whenever she loses a debate because she lacks the character to graciously concede?

[Mountain Man]

You are rather overly concerned about your wallet. Do you also complain about "the burden" of the military budget shifting to "the tax payer"?

On the contrary, I think I am concerned just enough. And if everybody was similarly concerned with their own wallets, then we wouldn't be in a situation where women feel they need to ask for a handout just because they want to become mothers.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah, we need somebody who can actually help people save more of their own money, and help increase the power of the money they have.

Someone like Donald Trump.

[mossrose]

You know, if someone is that financially insecure they probably can't afford to have a child in the first place. Kids ain't cheap. So maybe they should be looking for a better paying job that has 12 weeks of paid maternity leave AND pays them enough to actually raise a child?

Nah. They can go ahead and get pregnant and then get a state-funded abortion if they can't afford to raise a child. Problem solved.

[Terraceth]

An issue I see with requiring a bunch of paid maternity leave is that it makes people not want to hire women who have any likelihood of becoming pregnant. If your choice is between a man and a woman and you're required to offer paid maternity leave, it makes sense to pick the guy because he's a lot less likely to need time off for pregnancy in which you have to pay money while they're not working. Now, older women (who can no longer become pregnant) wouldn't be affected by this, but it'd definitely make it a lot harder for younger women to get jobs. And, sure, the Civil Rights Act says you can't discriminate in hiring based on sex, but it can be hard to actually prove discrimination, and this information is often going to be something the hiring manager is thinking of

I suppose this could be solved by requiring an equal amount of paid paternity leave, though. Though that does still lead to an advantage to older people who aren't going to have kids... but then again, it's supposedly harder for them to find jobs anyway, so maybe that's not the worst thing.

[Cow Poke]

An issue I see with requiring a bunch of paid maternity leave is that it makes people not want to hire women who have any likelihood of becoming pregnant. If your choice is between a man and a woman and you're required to offer paid maternity leave, it makes sense to pick the guy because he's a lot less likely to need time off for pregnancy in which you have to pay money while they're not working. Now, older women (who can no longer become pregnant) wouldn't be affected by this, but it'd definitely make it a lot harder for younger women to get jobs. And, sure, the Civil Rights Act says you can't discriminate in hiring based on sex, but it can be hard to actually prove discrimination, and this information is often going to be something the hiring manager is thinking of

I suppose this could be solved by requiring an equal amount of paid paternity leave, though. Though that does still lead to an advantage to older people who aren't going to have kids... but then again, it's supposedly harder for them to find jobs anyway, so maybe that's not the worst thing.

This is true - people don't become business owners or managers because they're stupid. And, as I have said, labor is one of the very few manageable or controllable costs in business.

And you are correct that it would be very difficult to prove that a hiring manager purposely avoided hiring women of child-bearing age to avoid this 'maternity trap'.

Then, again, there are doofuses like our Transportation Secretary who took 'paternity leave' while totally ignoring the job for which he was hired, and for which he had ZERO qualifications.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And does the character in question leave in a huff whenever she loses a debate because she lacks the character to graciously concede?

I would [again] provide, as I did for rogue06 on this thread the four minute video from the film that puts the character into her context but I know you have an aversion to watching video links.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

You know, if someone is that financially insecure they probably can't afford to have a child in the first place. Kids ain't cheap. So maybe they should be looking for a better paying job that has 12 weeks of paid maternity leave AND pays them enough to actually raise a child?

Only those who have attained a pre-determined and guaranteed thresh-hold of financial solvency should breed?

Well that is certainly an interesting proposition for a eugenics policy.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

No, it's superior because it is more comprehensive and granular allowing us to spot deficiencies that are (perhaps deliberately) hidden by the European system.

Oh dear do I detect another correspondent manifesting a degree of paranoia?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Planned Parenthood's only interest is helping pregnant women plan to not be parents.

Given your own concerns about conserving the money in your wallet, the comments by Cow Poke about "idiot liberals" that "pay plenty of other people (with our money) to stay home and get paid", the ironic remark from Gondwanaland "Yes, let's tax ourselves to pay ourselves for our maternity leave", not to mention the potential eugenics policy proposed by Sparko I would have thought that Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers were doing all of you a financial service.

By preventing all those [generally poor and/or less financially affluent] women from producing unwanted progeny that then go on to become a further burden on the state, those various social programmes that help such groups and which are paid for by your [clearly much cherished tax dollars] would eventually be eliminated because the "surplus population" would no longer exist.

Just think how much of your beloved money that would save all of you.


If anyone detects a hint of contemptuous sarcasm in this post, Bravo. It was intentional.

[Mountain Man]

Oh dear do I detect another correspondent manifesting a degree of paranoia?

It's not paranoia, it's a reasoned conclusion based on the facts. We know that Europe has lax medical record keeping that just happens to make them look better than the US if you don't pay close attention to the numbers, and I can only assume it is done deliberately to hide from taxpayers the second rate care they're really paying for.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

An issue I see with requiring a bunch of paid maternity leave is that it makes people not want to hire women who have any likelihood of becoming pregnant. If your choice is between a man and a woman and you're required to offer paid maternity leave, it makes sense to pick the guy because he's a lot less likely to need time off for pregnancy in which you have to pay money while they're not working. Now, older women (who can no longer become pregnant) wouldn't be affected by this, but it'd definitely make it a lot harder for younger women to get jobs. And, sure, the Civil Rights Act says you can't discriminate in hiring based on sex, but it can be hard to actually prove discrimination, and this information is often going to be something the hiring manager is thinking of

I suppose this could be solved by requiring an equal amount of paid paternity leave, though. Though that does still lead to an advantage to older people who aren't going to have kids... but then again, it's supposedly harder for them to find jobs anyway, so maybe that's not the worst thing.

That is why the USA needs nationally mandated laws [as have other civilised nations] that prevent employers from discriminating against employing women of child-bearing age, or indeed anyone else.

Here we have the Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz [General Equality Law] that prevents anyone from being discriminated against on the grounds of race, ethnic origin, gender, religion or belief, disability, age, or sexual orientation.






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