Is Political Correctness Making Our Kids Stupid?

[Carrikature]

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say WHAT? A writer can only have black characters if he is black? female characters if female? Really? There goes every novel ever written.

That's not what that means.

[Carrikature]

Funny because I specifically remember my college days being full of trying to teach people how to think. In fact, one of my English 102 books was titled "Everything's an Argument" and I see it is still used in college to this day (the 7th edition was just released this year). Do you care to try again because you asked since when and well... teaching you to think and reason kind of dates back to the foundations of western civilization and should be the foundations of modern education too. After all, if employees wanted a robot that just takes in facts and throws them back up on a sheet of paper; I'm sure a computer or robot would end up being cheaper and not whine as much.

That something has been done doesn't in any way establish that it was that person's job to do it. People are free to take on all sorts of responsibilities. That doesn't (and shouldn't) translate into justifying an expectation of that behavior.

[Carrikature]

Yeah it is because I don't know how your undergrad schooling worked, but I remember having to write several different papers where I had to argue a point and support it. I also remember having to give several speeches that were specifically persuasion speeches to an audience of my peers.

Guess what? Having to do something as part of your coursework doesn't translate into it being a part of the ultimate goal of education.

The major point of education is teaching somebody to do something with facts beyond throwing them back up on a test or on an essay.

It's not, actually, but you're getting warmer. Keep trying.

[Starlight]

CS Lewis would not be happy with modern Oxford.

As a teenager I enjoyed reading CS Lewis - I think I just about read everything he ever published. But as an adult looking back, I've come to the view that he wasn't really a very good critical thinker, and is much overrated.

[Meh Gerbil]

Just so it's clear, I'm not arguing for group think.
I'm not sure this is a fair characterization, though. You could paint the 'teach creationism' debate as 'diversity of thought vs group think', but that's disingenuous at best.

I disagree.
Understand, I'm not advocating the teaching of Creationism - I honestly don't care; however, it isn't hard to imagine some benefits.

1: Most people in the US hold to some type of Creationism. I should think students being familiar with a majority view, even if that view is wrong, would be a good thing.
2: It would equip Evolutionists to deal with common misconceptions/attack points/weaknesses in their own theory. They'd be better evolutionists.

As a Creationist I once debated a co-worker (degreed scientist) and I pulled his pants down and humiliated him because he was utterly clueless that there was even a controversy. He had no idea when I was leading him into a trap, no clue as to the importance of certain definitions, and he was absolutely defenseless because he'd been sheltered. I couldn't do that here because all the Evolutionists on TWEB know the battleground well and they'll not concede a single key point. They've been educated. They are better Evolutionists.

If I were in charge of education I'd expose my students to any number of crackpots because in a school environment I can help them work through some of the tougher nuts to crack. I can set up what appears to be an unbeatable opposing argument and show them how to take it apart. Why anyone would avoid that type of education is beyond me.

[Bill the Cat]

As a teenager I enjoyed reading CS Lewis - I think I just about read everything he ever published. But as an adult looking back, I've come to the view that he wasn't really a very good critical thinker, and is much overrated.

I consider it an honor that you grace us plebes with your magnanimousness...

[seer]

I consider it an honor that you grace us plebes with your magnanimousness...

Like Star has any standing to speak about critical thinking...

[Meh Gerbil]

As a teenager I enjoyed reading CS Lewis - I think I just about read everything he ever published. But as an adult looking back, I've come to the view that he wasn't really a very good critical thinker, and is much overrated.

C.S. Lewis never struck me as a man trying to convince anyone of anything as much as he was relating his own experience and sharing some of his ideas.
I enjoy those kind of authors more than the salesmen type.

[KingsGambit]

If I were in charge of education I'd expose my students to any number of crackpots because in a school environment I can help them work through some of the tougher nuts to crack. I can set up what appears to be an unbeatable opposing argument and show them how to take it apart. Why anyone would avoid that type of education is beyond me.

I think this is only appropriate at higher levels. When I taught world history in a junior high class, the kids I taught knew almost nothing... about anything. When it came time to talk about the Holocaust, I wasn't about to present Holocaust denial arguments there to "teach the controversy". I didn't want them thinking "well maybe there's something to it". When the subject came up, I was pretty clear that there was ample evidence the Holocaust happened and some people still say it didn't but they were just full of crap. Then I moved on.

[KingsGambit]

Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add one thing: I still did teach critical thinking when I taught World War II. I wrote up the most even handed summaries I could of Truman's decision to drop the A-bomb and presented the kids arguments for both sides and had them make a decision. Interesting result: The half of the class that was white unanimously thought it was justified. The other half (Hispanic and black) unanimously did not.

I see this as different because this was an issue where reasonable people really do and can disagree.

[Meh Gerbil]

I think this is only appropriate at higher levels. When I taught world history in a junior high class, the kids I taught knew almost nothing... about anything. When it came time to talk about the Holocaust, I wasn't about to present Holocaust denial arguments there to "teach the controversy". I didn't want them thinking "well maybe there's something to it". When the subject came up, I was pretty clear that there was ample evidence the Holocaust happened and some people still say it didn't but they were just full of crap. Then I moved on.

So they can handle the horror of the Holocaust but cannot emotionally handle a denier?

That aside, I'd agree that every historical/scientific assertion cannot be tested in this way or kids would never graduate from High School; however, they should run through the exercise frequently in order to learn how to think and reason - and to learn that sometimes people disagree and that curling up in a fetal position and crying like a millennial snowflake who just lost an election is an inappropriate response to blowback.

[KingsGambit]

So they can handle the horror of the Holocaust but cannot emotionally handle a denier?

That aside, I'd agree that every historical/scientific assertion cannot be tested in this way or kids would never graduate from High School; however, they should run through the exercise frequently in order to learn how to think and reason - and to learn that sometimes people disagree and that curling up in a fetal position and crying like a millennial snowflake who just lost an election is an inappropriate response to blowback.

I didn't say anything about emotionally handling it. I did not want to give the false impression that it was a legitimate controversy to kids who probably don't even know who their own Vice President is. You don't teach calculus to kids who haven't even mastered algebra.

I didn't at all shy from emotionally difficult stuff when teaching.

[guacamole]

That's not what that means.

Unfortunately, it's exactly what it means. Compare with:

"I Hope the Concept of Cultural Appropriation is a Passing Fad"

Here are some key points:

theft.

Hopefully, there's a growing backlash against it. Else, we will end up in silly land.

fwiw,
guacamole

[Sparko]

That's not what that means.

so what does it mean? sure read like that.

[Meh Gerbil]

I'm only going to write this once:

You don't own your heritage. You don't own its symbols, its sacred writings, its music, its images, its stories, its beliefs, its ethics, its history - none, nada, nope. All of that stuff is free for anyone to use at any time for any purpose and you've absolutely no legitimate reason to complain (1). I can wear a sombrero, smoke a peace pipe, and spend the morning drawing pictures of Mohammad in the sand - you don't own any of that stuff regardless of where you were born.

The idea that person's lineage gives them special rights over symbols is ridiculous.





NOTES
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1: Hurt feelings aren't a legitimate complaint.