18 Year Old Left Braindead After School Resource Officer Fires At Car Driving Away

[myth]

Not really relevant at all here.

I'm sorry, your own words aren't relevant here? You're the one imputing your own concept of what the legal standard SHOULD be into the discussion, but it's not relevant? I agree, your words were not relevant because they have nothing to do with reality.

The irony of all this disagreement is that I actually think that the instant case is a bad shooting, which I clearly said. I don't think your heart's in the wrong place here, but you're making a lot of careless assumptions in your general comments.

Also, I'd like to apologize for some of my digs at you. I DO think you're not qualified to assess this situation (based on your own comments), but I was not very charitable in the way I said it. Hope you have a good weekend.

[Cow Poke]

I'm sorry, your own words aren't relevant here? You're the one imputing your own concept of what the legal standard SHOULD be into the discussion, but it's not relevant? I agree, your words were not relevant because they have nothing to do with reality.

The irony of all this disagreement is that I actually think that the instant case is a bad shooting, which I clearly said. I don't think your heart's in the wrong place here, but you're making a lot of careless assumptions in your general comments.

Also, I'd like to apologize for some of my digs at you. I DO think you're not qualified to assess this situation (based on your own comments), but I was not very charitable in the way I said it. Hope you have a good weekend.

The sense in which I think this might be a "bad cop" would not be in the "corrupt" sense, but like that insurance commercial where a Drill Instructor might make a "bad therapist".

[Gondwanaland]

I'm sorry, your own words aren't relevant here?

No, your words that I quotedwere not relevant.

You're the one imputing your own concept of what the legal standard SHOULD be into the discussion, but it's not relevant? I agree, your words were not relevant because they have nothing to do with reality.

The irony of all this disagreement is that I actually think that the instant case is a bad shooting, which I clearly said. I don't think your heart's in the wrong place here, but you're making a lot of careless assumptions in your general comments.

No, you just don't like my opinion toward the prevalence of bad policing.

Also, I'd like to apologize for some of my digs at you. I DO think you're not qualified to assess this situation (based on your own comments), but I was not very charitable in the way I said it. Hope you have a good weekend.

I'm sure that's nice for you. I'm quite qualified to assess the situation, you just don't like what my assessment is, because you've got your own skin in the game.

[Gondwanaland]

The sense in which I think this might be a "bad cop" would not be in the "corrupt" sense, but like that insurance commercial where a Drill Instructor might make a "bad therapist".

Precisely. There are many forms of bad cops. Corruption is not necessary for one to be a bad cop. (or in this case, a security guard who thinks he's a cop)

[Stoic]

When I first heard this story, I got the impression that the 15 year old girl had been forced into the car, and I figured that the officer felt there was a kidnapping in progress, and fired in order to stop it. That would be poor judgment, but at least comprehensible. But there is currently no indication that the 15 year old was in the car.

If the officer was shooting because he thought the driver had tried to run him down, he ended up shooting the wrong person. The woman who died was in the passenger seat, not the driver seat.

There is no doubt that it was a bad shooting. But I'd really like to know what was going on in the officer's mind.

(BTW, this hits pretty close to home, since my daughter graduated from that school a few years ago.)

[Gondwanaland]

When I first heard this story, I got the impression that the 15 year old girl had been forced into the car, and I figured that the officer felt there was a kidnapping in progress, and fired in order to stop it. That would be poor judgment, but at least comprehensible. But there is currently no indication that the 15 year old was in the car.

If the officer was shooting because he thought the driver had tried to run him down, he ended up shooting the wrong person. The woman who died was in the passenger seat, not the driver seat.

There is no doubt that it was a bad shooting. But I'd really like to know what was going on in the officer's mind.

(BTW, this hits pretty close to home, since my daughter graduated from that school a few years ago.)

Correct, the 15 year old was not in the car. There was a catfight between Mona and the 15 year old, the security 'officer' saw it somehow (even though it wasn't on the school grounds at all), and broke it up, threatening to mace both the girls.

Mona, her boyfriend, and his brother, got into their car and started to leave, the 'officer' moved forward toward them and pulled his gun, they went around him, and then he shot.

The man is essentially an armed security guard for the school district and not actually even a police officer, it seems.

Indeed, I think it would be interesting to see what in the world went through his mind that he thought his actions were okay or justifiable.

[rogue06]

Correct. If the person is driving away, there is no reason to be firing. The officer is not in imminent danger, and clearly was not. He doesn't get to get "revenge" because he thinks someone tried to hit him.

The reason I asked, is that when I was younger things were different.

The oldest brother of a couple of my friends from my younger days was always in legal trouble and not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Some of his arrests are comedy gold. But the last time one was a humdinger.

He had just got out of jail and was with his pregnant gf (she was 16 he was 25) trying to steal money from banks through check kiting. The problem was that by the time of the 80s banks could communicate very quickly and that particular con had evolved. As he got back in the car the cops swarmed the bank parking lot.

Now, you have to understand that some of these cops had gone to school with Tommy. They knew who he was. Nevertheless Tommy, being Tommy, decided to make a run for it. In doing so apparently he clipped the foot of one of the cops (no he wasn't hurt). It suddenly became assault with a deadly weapon against a cop.

Both back tires were shot out before he made it out of the parking lot.

[Cow Poke]

Correct, the 15 year old was not in the car. There was a catfight between Mona and the 15 year old, the security 'officer' saw it somehow (even though it wasn't on the school grounds at all), and broke it up, threatening to mace both the girls.

Mona, her boyfriend, and his brother, got into their car and started to leave, the 'officer' moved forward toward them and pulled his gun, they went around him, and then he shot.

The man is essentially an armed security guard for the school district and not actually even a police officer, it seems.

Indeed, I think it would be interesting to see what in the world went through his mind that he thought his actions were okay or justifiable.

Keep in mind that, with further investigation, we're getting more information than the shooter may have had access to at the time.

HOWEVER, with what it appears he knew AT THE TIME (without this additional information) it STILL looks to me like a bad shoot, and I can't imagine anything coming to light that he might have known AT THE TIME that would have made it a justifiable shoot.

[Gondwanaland]

Keep in mind that, with further investigation, we're getting more information than the shooter may have had access to at the time.

HOWEVER, with what it appears he knew AT THE TIME (without this additional information) it STILL looks to me like a bad shoot, and I can't imagine anything coming to light that he might have known AT THE TIME that would have made it a justifiable shoot.

You're far more charitable than I. I get it, cops tend to give the benefit of the doubt to other cops. That's frankly a big part of our current problem though.

[Cow Poke]

You're far more charitable than I. I get it, cops tend to give the benefit of the doubt to other cops. That's frankly a big part of our current problem though.

But maybe you're missing the point -

EVEN trying to be charitable, and consider every possibility, I can't find anything that would justify what he did.
Same with Chauvin in the death of George Floyd.
Same with Michael Byrd who shot the unarmed woman.

And the fact is that the only fair way to view a police shooting is to consider what he KNEW at the time.
It doesn't help, for example, that they later discover that the fleeing vehicle had a trunkload of automatic weapons.

(Note - NOT SAYING there was a trunk load of automatic weapons - JUST an example)

[Gondwanaland]

But maybe you're missing the point -

EVEN trying to be charitable, and consider every possibility, I can't find anything that would justify what he did.
Same with Chauvin in the death of George Floyd.
Same with Michael Byrd who shot the unarmed woman.

And the fact is that the only fair way to view a police shooting is to consider what he KNEW at the time.
It doesn't help, for example, that they later discover that the fleeing vehicle had a trunkload of automatic weapons.

(Note - NOT SAYING there was a trunk load of automatic weapons - JUST an example)

Correct, even still you continue to try to extend the benefit of the doubt, even after saying you can't find anything. Like I said, I get it. Blue looking after Blue. It's a reflex - I wasn't putting you down for it or bashing you for it (we see myth has the same reflex). Unfortunately it's a reflex that overall is the cause of current problems in police, especially in places with unions filled with Blue looking after Blue. It's a reflex that needs to be disconnected on a system-wide level if we want positive change to happen. Otherwise I forsee a whole lot more BLM violence for decades to come.

[Cow Poke]

Correct, even still you continue to try to extend the benefit of the doubt,

Same as I'd do for you.

even after saying you can't find anything. Like I said, I get it. Blue looking after Blue. It's a reflex.

But, because of that "reflex", I try harder to be objective.

Unfortunately it's a reflex that overall is the cause of current problems in police, especially in places with unions filled with Blue looking after Blue.

I don't consider him a "real cop". I don't believe he had the training a real cop gets, and I don't believe he would have qualified the way a real cop would have to have qualified. I think he was a "security guard" with a gun, which, in my opinion, is always inviting disaster.

[Gondwanaland]

Same as I'd do for you.

I'd love to believe that. But I'm not a cop. So I wouldn't get the same.

But, because of that "reflex", I try harder to be objective.

Key words: 'try'

I don't consider him a "real cop". I don't believe he had the training a real cop gets, and I don't believe he would have qualified the way a real cop would have to have qualified. I think he was a "security guard" with a gun, which, in my opinion, is always inviting disaster.

Agreed on that part. But something about it still seems to be kicking that little reflex.

[rogue06]

[...]

And the fact is that the only fair way to view a police shooting is to consider what he KNEW at the time.
It doesn't help, for example, that they later discover that the fleeing vehicle had a trunkload of automatic weapons.

(Note - NOT SAYING there was a trunk load of automatic weapons - JUST an example)

That's kind of what is happening in the Ahmaud Arbery shooting case here in Georgia. The defense keeps wanting to enter stuff learned later about the victim in order to show this wasn't some innocent lamb "doin' nuthin' to nobody."

But neither the father or son knew any of that before the shooting so it keeps getting ruled as inadmissible.

[Cow Poke]

I'd love to believe that. But I'm not a cop. So I wouldn't get the same.

That's a bit judgmental.

Key words: 'try'

I'm a realist.

Agreed on that part. But something about it still seems to be kicking that little reflex.

Yet we come to the same conclusion.