Mass Psychosis

[Sparko]

That is a total misunderstanding of PCR processes which only are used to match up with small fragments of DNA. The DNA sequencing is done with totally different equipment as far as I understand things. If variants of the RNA identified as SARS-CoV2 are to be found, the samples have to be sent to a lab equipped to sequence the fragments of DNA of interest.

You don't have a clue do you?

They are basically the same thing. PCR amplifies a genetic sample to be able to make chart of the genes in the sample. They match those genes against known samples in the database. If a match is found then the DNA is from the same individual. They do the same thing with a virus. They look for specific genes that the virus has and if they are there then you are infected.

[rogue06]

It is not about re-structuring your society. It is about the risks of large swathes of non-vaccinated individuals potentially putting the health of the vaccinated at risk. As the PBS article I linked noted:P

In a study published July 28 in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers analyzed results from nasal swab tests collected from 1,497 fully vaccinated health care workers at Israel’s largest medical center, with the last tests gathered by April 28, when the alpha variant was taking hold in Israel. They found 39 breakthrough infections. Those who were infected presented with mild symptoms, if any at all, the study authors wrote. And these results were finalized months before the delta variant dominated the pandemic. In a July 21 study published in the same journal, researchers noted there were “only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness” between people exposed to the alpha variant versus the delta variant.

But in the U.S., no one knows exactly how many breakthrough cases there really are because nationwide data doesn’t exist. The agency does not count vaccinated people who have been diagnosed with the disease but are asymptomatic or have only mild symptoms, said Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health. That’s problematic, he said, because the way researchers count infections among vaccinated people is vital to investigating this continually evolving virus, he said.

“One of the most critical questions is how much forward-transmission is happening from breakthrough infections,” Jha said. “That’s something I don’t feel like we have a good grip on and is absolutely essential to understand.”

These are really important questions, and it is really difficult to answer them without data, Wen said, who added that, “we need to understand what we’re dealing with here.”

The risk of a breakthrough infection for vaccinated people with symptoms upon exposure to the delta variant is reduced by seven-fold and that reduction is 20-fold for hospitalizations and death, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, who directs the CDC, said Tuesday.

Judging from some of the comments on this board, this part of the article is also very pertinent.

A substantial portion of people in the U.S. have been exposed to misinformation about the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines — including that breakthrough infections somehow mean that they do not work –obscuring how they and others perceive those risks, experts say.

Folks who are recovering from cancer surgery or treatment are also at risk from germs and disease.

Should the entire world mask up and retain social distancing so we avoid getting them sick?

[Mountain Man]

I think you are slightly in danger of becoming paranoid.

I also remind you that your habits, movements, and comments are surveilled and monitored on a regular basis with the potential for that information to be used against you to restrict those various freedoms.

It's not paranoia when we can see multiple examples of the China flu being used as an excuse to deny certain freedoms.

"Put aside all of these issues of concern about liberties and personal liberties and realize we have a common enemy, and that common enemy is virus,” Dr. Fauci says. “And we really have to all pull together to get on top of this, otherwise we're going to continue to suffer."

berlin-wall-1950s-60s-24.jpg
"Here are my papers. I am up to date on my vaccine boosters, and
I have not posted any unapproved comments on social media."

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Who are less than 1% of those either hospitalized or dying.

Do we restructure our entire civilization around that?

It is not about re-structuring your society. It is about the risks of large swathes of non-vaccinated individuals potentially putting the health of the vaccinated at risk. As the PBS article I linked noted:P

In a study published July 28 in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers analyzed results from nasal swab tests collected from 1,497 fully vaccinated health care workers at Israel’s largest medical center, with the last tests gathered by April 28, when the alpha variant was taking hold in Israel. They found 39 breakthrough infections. Those who were infected presented with mild symptoms, if any at all, the study authors wrote. And these results were finalized months before the delta variant dominated the pandemic. In a July 21 study published in the same journal, researchers noted there were “only modest differences in vaccine effectiveness” between people exposed to the alpha variant versus the delta variant.

But in the U.S., no one knows exactly how many breakthrough cases there really are because nationwide data doesn’t exist. The agency does not count vaccinated people who have been diagnosed with the disease but are asymptomatic or have only mild symptoms, said Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health. That’s problematic, he said, because the way researchers count infections among vaccinated people is vital to investigating this continually evolving virus, he said.

“One of the most critical questions is how much forward-transmission is happening from breakthrough infections,” Jha said. “That’s something I don’t feel like we have a good grip on and is absolutely essential to understand.”

These are really important questions, and it is really difficult to answer them without data, Wen said, who added that, “we need to understand what we’re dealing with here.”

The risk of a breakthrough infection for vaccinated people with symptoms upon exposure to the delta variant is reduced by seven-fold and that reduction is 20-fold for hospitalizations and death, Dr. Rochelle Walensky, who directs the CDC, said Tuesday.

Judging from some of the comments on this board, this part of the article is also very pertinent.

A substantial portion of people in the U.S. have been exposed to misinformation about the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines — including that breakthrough infections somehow mean that they do not work –obscuring how they and others perceive those risks, experts say.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Right, and that rationalization can be used to justify just about any restriction of personal liberty, including freedom of movement, and even speech.

I think you are slightly in danger of becoming paranoid.

I also remind you that your habits, movements, and comments are surveilled and monitored on a regular basis with the potential for that information to be used against you to restrict those various freedoms.

[Mountain Man]

If PCR tests were as unreliable as Mike claims they are then our entire legal system's use of DNA in identifying people (victims. perpetrators) is of no use.

This is when we need the "That's not how this works! That's not how any of this works!" meme.

The reason PCR is useful for DNA testing is because in a situation where there isn't enough DNA for a test, PCR can be used to multiply the DNA molecules until there is a sufficient quantity required for the procedure. The reason this fails as a means for detecting people who are sick with the China flu (or any other diseases) is because while you can multiply molecules until you have a detectable quantity, that doesn't prove that the person is sick, that they will get sick, or that they will ever become contagious.

[mikewhitney]

If PCR tests were as unreliable as Mike claims they are then our entire legal system's use of DNA in identifying people (victims. perpetrators) is of no use.

That is a total misunderstanding of PCR processes which only are used to match up with small fragments of DNA. The DNA sequencing is done with totally different equipment as far as I understand things. If variants of the RNA identified as SARS-CoV2 are to be found, the samples have to be sent to a lab equipped to sequence the fragments of DNA of interest.

[Stoic]

Who are less than 1% of those either hospitalized or dying.

Do we restructure our entire civilization around that?

That 1% figure was from May. More recent data suggests that the vaccinated aren't quite as well protected against the delta variant. "Nationally, 97% of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 are unvaccinated, as of July 22."

Of course, that doesn't count the threat to the vaccinated when hospitals are full, and no medical service is available for things like accidents or heart attacks.

[rogue06]

Who are less than 1% of those either hospitalized or dying.

Do we restructure our entire civilization around that?

Btw, we have a government that is letting hundreds of thousands of folks pour across our border, coming from a country that is experiencing about their worst outbreak ever of the Chicom coronavirus.

Hundreds of thousands from a country suffering a major outbreak, who they don't even bother to test

Hundreds of thousands from a country suffering a major outbreak, who they don't even bother to test and simply stuff into busses to be sent to towns all across the country.

That is something that could be stopped and would likely make a major impact.

But just like the four day Lollapalooza concert where over 385,000 people were packed in tight as sardines with a mask being rarer than someone without a tattoo, and Obama's self-aggrandize birthday gala that he threw for himself and a couple hundred "close friends and family" who are just too "sophisticated" to get sick so you saw very few masks (likely on just the staff) that is largely ignored and permitted by the same folks who freak if you aren't wearing a mask when you are alone outside walking your dog without anyone within a hundred yards.

[Mountain Man]

My comment referred to an ethical issue surrounding the notion of personal freedom.

Right, and that rationalization can be used to justify just about any restriction of personal liberty, including freedom of movement, and even speech.

[rogue06]

And as has been noted those who remain unvaccinated may pose a potential risk to those who have been vaccinated.

Who are less than 1% of those either hospitalized or dying.

Do we restructure our entire civilization around that?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And as I said, and has been repeatedly been confirmed, something like 99% of those dying are those not fully vaccinated.

And as has been noted those who remain unvaccinated may pose a potential risk to those who have been vaccinated.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That rationalization can be used to justify just about any restriction of personal liberty, including freedom of movement, and even speech.

My comment referred to an ethical issue surrounding the notion of personal freedom.

[Mountain Man]

The ethical issue is the point at which your personal freedom adversely risks affecting another person's health with the possibility of causing their death.

That rationalization can be used to justify just about any restriction of personal liberty, including freedom of movement, and even speech.

[Cow Poke]

Might I suggest ....

When you stop being a dishonest little , I might take your suggestions seriuosly.