McCarthy/Trump Phone Call

[Sparko]

As they should be, given his actions from the election through to the inauguration, and given what he was able to coax his most militant supporters into doing Jan 6.

They have already impeached him, twice now, and failed. They have been investigating him from before he took office and have spent the last 4 years trying to find some way to get him out of office. He is now out of office. And they still can't let it go. They are as obsessed with Trump as you are. It is bordering on the insane.

[oxmixmudd]

They have already impeached him, twice now, and failed. They have been investigating him from before he took office and have spent the last 4 years trying to find some way to get him out of office. He is now out of office. And they still can't let it go. They are as obsessed with Trump as you are. It is bordering on the insane.

The sole reason the impeachment failed was political, as evidenced by 7 republicans that voted to convict, and Mitch McConnell's comments after the announcement of the verdict. What Donald Trump did Jan 6 is why we have impeachment, and the fact it failed to produce action (both times) is saying impeachment is not a sufficient protection against a rogue actor like Donald Trump. The narrative that this was manufactured or somehow blown out of proportion is false. We can trace from the first announcements that the only way he could lose would be if the Democrats cheated all the way through to the fiery rhetoric from multiple sources the morning of Jan 6 a concerted effort to undermine faith in the elections and motivate his followers to help him keep power even if he lost the election. Those actions culminated in the insurrection on Jan 6 - an event planned by multiple actors. We have his direct call to the Proud Boys - a key part of the insurrection - to "Stand down and STAND BY". We can see from his indifference to calls for help from a Senator in his own party (McCarthy), reports of how he refused to call out support, how he was watching with glee as the events unfolded, that this is what he wanted, what he hoped for. We can see in his tweets about Pence during the insurrection his utter indifference to human life and the safety of those in the Capitol building that day. We can see that in how long he waited to actually issue any sort of appeal to the mob. We can see it in how he announced his love for them. And we can see it in that to this day he has not uttered one word of apology for the events his actions and words brought forth.

The idea these events are 'no big deal' or 'not worthy of impeachment' is what is "insane" Sparko. The idea Donald Trump is not responsible for them is pure denial of the facts. As has been said many times - if it were not for Donald Trump, Jan 6 would NEVER have happened. He could have stopped it anywhere along the way, and given his power, not acting decisively to make sure this did not happen or that it stopped or to send in forces to end it immediately is dereliction of duty and a violation of his oath of office.

[Cow Poke]

The sole reason the impeachment failed was political, as evidenced by 7 republicans that voted to convict, and Mitch McConnell's comments after the announcement of the verdict. What Donald Trump did Jan 6 is why we have impeachment, and the fact it failed to produce action (both times) is saying impeachment is not a sufficient protection against a rogue actor like Donald Trump. The narrative that this was manufactured or somehow blown out of proportion is false. We can trace from the first announcements that the only way he could lose would be if the Democrats cheated all the way through to the fiery rhetoric from multiple sources the morning of Jan 6 a concerted effort to undermine faith in the elections and motivate his followers to help him keep power even if he lost the election. Those actions culminated in the insurrection on Jan 6 - an event planned by multiple actors. We have his direct call to the Proud Boys - a key part of the insurrection - to "Stand down and STAND BY". We can see from his indifference to calls for help from a Senator in his own party (McCarthy), reports of how he refused to call out support, how he was watching with glee as the events unfolded, that this is what he wanted, what he hoped for. We can see in his tweets about Pence during the insurrection his utter indifference to human life and the safety of those in the Capitol building that day. We can see that in how long he waited to actually issue any sort of appeal to the mob. We can see it in how he announced his love for them. And we can see it in that to this day he has not uttered one word of apology for the events his actions and words brought forth.

The idea these events are 'no big deal' or 'not worthy of impeachment' is what is "insane" Sparko. The idea Donald Trump is not responsible for them is pure denial of the facts. As has been said many times - if it were not for Donald Trump, Jan 6 would NEVER have happened. He could have stopped it anywhere along the way, and given his power, not acting decisively to make sure this did not happen or that it stopped or to send in forces to end it immediately is dereliction of duty and a violation of his oath of office.

The sole reason the impeachment happened was political. It is a political critter.

[whag]

The sole reason the impeachment happened was political. It is a political critter.

All impeachments are political.

[Cow Poke]

All impeachments are political.

EGGzackly. Especially the last three!

[Ronson]

They are well documented and a subset was presented at the impeachment trial. We could go through them one-by-one I suppose.

You imagine poorly. Plenty is already in evidence. That the rich and powerful tend to get away with their crimes is not evidence they did not commit them.

Or that they did. What I watched of the impeachment, which was nauseatingly emotional drivel, wouldn't have convicted anyone in criminal court. It was a partisan witch hunt, demonstrated by the party-line votes.

And if Trump skates, it will only be proof once again that the law often does not apply to the rich and powerful. The real difference with Trump is that by him leveraging the distrust of conservatives for the MSM

You see, this is a common misconception by the Left. They believe the Right began distrusting MSM and their obvious bias only after Trump appeared on the scene. That is incorrect.

he has been able to convince millions that only he and his approved sources of information are 'telling the truth'. By cutting them off then from any sources willing to tell the truth about what he has done and is doing, he created the atmosphere were he could create a false narrative about the election being stolen and then rally those loyal to him to literally march on the capitol.

There were many irregularities with the election, in key states and cities. Like the capitol riot, it is something that needs to be addressed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/don...-riot-n1258009

Well, that one is destined for failure.

That is absurd. The McCarthy Phone call that is the subject of this Thread perhaps might be the elephant in the room. Trump siding with the mob as they threaten, beat, and desicrate the capitol? Trump reacting with Glee as the event unfolds, refusing to act to protect the congressmen and senators in a timely fashion, Trump tweeting out incendiary remarks wrt Pence as a mob is invading the capitol, a mob that has constructed a gallows and that in the capitol is shouting they wish to 'Hang Mike Pence'. There is plenty there, and playing it down, pretending it is not/was not a serious and real threat to our nation is itself playing it down!

Aside from the McCarthy phone call (which is not related to the capitol riot) the rest is speculation.

As for previous issues: Trump played the game with Ukraine, but there was a real crime there. He got the GOP to block witnesses and in the end he was able to get away with the crime there - but he still committed the crime Ronson.

I heard the Ukraine phone call. It was recorded by both sides, and both sides said there was no coercion involved, and I heard none as well. Only people assuming there are monsters under the bed are going to see them.

Trump has been investigated and investigated because he has been commiting crime after crime. But they are crimes of intent, and intent is often hard to prove. He has thumbed his nose at nearly every restraint on power, and he has engaged in a nearly continuous curruption of his office and the abuse of his power even before the time he was sworn in. That is why he has been the subject of a series of investigations and criticisms. The idea he is somehow 'innocent' or some sort of 'unfaily targetted good guy' is just nuts, a narrative of his own choosing that simply does not reflect reality.

He is an outsider who infiltrated the insider club. He isn't diplomatic at all. He's a clod and a buffoon, and he had the temerity to embarrass the elites in Congress, the MSM, and the Left fringe in the eyes of the world (because these people care about what the world thinks). I don't. The man has numerous faults and sometimes straddled lines of imprudence, but his anti-globalism and anti-miltarism are his downfall. There is big money and powerful forces behind those interests. Globalist Biden is already selling the US out to the world, and I fully expect one or more new military ventures coming.

[Ronson]

The connections to me are obvious. As they were to 57 senators and Mitch McConnell.

That is essentially along party lines. The only thing obvious is partisanship.

But let's explore small bite by small bite.

You could start by explaining why you are willing to look the other way at Trump abandoning the Senators and Congressman to the violence of the mob as evidenced by his comment to McCarthy that is the subject in the OP of this thread. You could explain how that is not a dereliction of his duty, an abandonment of his oath of office to protect this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

1) What comment to McCarthy are you referencing?
2) Why would it be Trump's responsibility to police the capitol building? Such security measures should be automatic. If police see a mob charging a bank to rob it, they don't call the police chief and ask for permission to protect the bank. They step up and do their duty.

[oxmixmudd]

The sole reason the impeachment happened was political. It is a political critter.

We disagree. But I will say that if what Trump did was not just cause for impeachment, then we may as well just strike the whole thing from the constitution because it has no power whatsoever to prevent a rogue president from siezing power or just about any other thing a rogue president might want to do.

[oxmixmudd]

That is essentially along party lines. The only thing obvious is partisanship.

As has been pointed out many times, it is the most bi partisan impeachment vote ever. to get 7, 8 with McConnell to see and publically make clear his culpability is remarkable.. it is, however, also remarkable in the most negative way that 42 Republicans did not publicly acknowledge what most clearly understood - that this president fomented and reveled in what happened at the Capitol jan 6.

1) What comment to McCarthy are you referencing?
2) Why would it be Trump's responsibility to police the capitol building? Such security measures should be automatic. If police see a mob charging a bank to rob it, they don't call the police chief and ask for permission to protect the bank. They step up and do their duty.

You know exactly which comment. And I'm not going to play along with any attempts to play down its significance. And it most certainly is the presidents responsibility to call off his own supporters and to take the necessary steps to allow the security forces needed to stop what was happening. Governor Hogan was ready and waiting to send in the MD national guard and it took an upper level army officer effectively doing an end run around the president to get them released to enter DC.

And I will call out the disgraceful attempt to put blame on the capital police or DC metro police. It was physically impossible for the forces deployed to present an adequate response to that mob. They needed massive reinforcements and the president was the one with the authority to send them in, and he refused to do so.

[Ronson]

As has been pointed out many times, it is the most bi partisan impeachment vote ever. to get 7, 8 with McConnell to see and publically make clear his culpability is remarkable.. it is, however, also remarkable in the most negative way that 42 Republicans did not publicly acknowledge what most clearly understood - that this president fomented and reveled in what happened at the Capitol jan 6.

pie.jpg

You know exactly which comment.

I honestly do not.

And I'm not going to play along with any attempts to play down its significance. And it most certainly is the presidents responsibility to call off his own supporters and to take the necessary steps to allow the security forces needed to stop what was happening. Governor Hogan was ready and waiting to send in the MD national guard and it took an upper level army officer effectively doing an end run around the president to get them released to enter DC.

And I will call out the disgraceful attempt to put blame on the capital police or DC metro police. It was physically impossible for the forces deployed to present an adequate response to that mob. They needed massive reinforcements and the president was the one with the authority to send them in, and he refused to do so.

They should have been able to handle it. If they couldn't, then that is the security hole that needs to be addressed.

[oxmixmudd]

Or that they did. What I watched of the impeachment, which was nauseatingly emotional drivel, wouldn't have convicted anyone in criminal court. It was a partisan witch hunt, demonstrated by the party-line votes.

It was not just party line votes. The Republicans the voted to convict did so at Great risk to their political careers. Likewise McConnell's statement after.. to get 7 + in the current rarified partisan air is a massive statement wrt the seriousness of Trumps crime.

You see, this is a common misconception by the Left. They believe the Right began distrusting MSM and their obvious bias only after Trump appeared on the scene. That is incorrect.

I didn't say it began with Trump. I said Trump leveraged it. You can't leverage something that does not already exist.

There were many irregularities with the election, in key states and cities. Like the capitol riot, it is something that needs to be addressed.

Not of a sort that had any meaning wrt the integrity of the election. What you are echoing here is "Trump's big lie". There is no evidence of any fraud on a level that would have changed the result. And that was the result of attempt after attempt to make a case to the contrary all across this land. And it did not matter who looked at the evidence, republican or Democrat. Trump appointed judhe or not. The conclusions were all the same. Georgia being a prime example.

Well, that one is destined for failure.

I have no opinion on the likelihood of a given outcome.

Aside from the McCarthy phone call (which is not related to the capitol riot) the rest is speculation.

No, it's not. But your statement is so divorced from reality there is little to no possibility going over the facts could change your mind.

I heard the Ukraine phone call. It was recorded by both sides, and both sides said there was no coercion involved, and I heard none as well. Only people assuming there are monsters under the bed are going to see them.

The attempt to paint those speaking truth about what was happening as somehow not rational is part of the general disinformation campaign. It is a completely false claim. The coercion was obvious and clear. Just as it was with Trump's call to the ga officials looking for missing votes.

He is an outsider who infiltrated the insider club. He isn't diplomatic at all. He's a clod and a buffoon, and he had the temerity to embarrass the elites in Congress, the MSM, and the Left fringe in the eyes of the world (because these people care about what the world thinks). I don't. The man has numerous faults and sometimes straddled lines of imprudence, but his anti-globalism and anti-miltarism are his downfall. There is big money and powerful forces behind those interests. Globalist Biden is already selling the US out to the world, and I fully expect one or more new military ventures coming.

No, he's a con with delusions of grandeur. A man with no conscience and who lives only for himself. A person that revels in lies and just how blatant he can be in spinning them. A man that knows how to manipulate people and use their fears and hopes to get him what he wants. And if it were not for people of integrity blocking him every step along the way, he would have succeeded.

[oxmixmudd]

pie.jpg




I honestly do not.



They should have been able to handle it. If they couldn't, then that is the security hole that needs to be addressed.

Wrong on two counts. As for which comment in the McCarthy call, if you don't know then you clearly are not actually aware of the evidence against Trump - which does not surprise me.

BTW - what you call RINOs are the only GOP members willing to act on the integrity and principle that defined the republican party i voted for every year before 2016. They are the men of the party. The rest are just little children cowering in Trump's shadow or Trump wanna be's hoping to live on scraps from his table.

[Cow Poke]

We disagree. But I will say that if what Trump did was not just cause for impeachment, then we may as well just strike the whole thing from the constitution because it has no power whatsoever to prevent a rogue president from siezing power or just about any other thing a rogue president might want to do.

That's assuming that Trump planned and orchestrated this with intent to take over the government. That's just silly.

And it makes no sense whatsoever to "strike this whole thing from the constitution" because it empowered the Democrats to proceed with their sham politically motivated impeachment, and for the Senate to use their political power to say no.

[Ronson]

Wrong on two counts. As for which comment in the McCarthy call, if you don't know then you clearly are not actually aware of the evidence against Trump - which does not surprise me.

The CNN spin stuff? No, I'm not.

BTW - what you call RINOs are the only GOP members willing to act on the integrity and principle that defined the republican party i voted for every year before 2016. They are the men of the party. The rest are just little children cowering in Trump's shadow or Trump wanna be's hoping to live on scraps from his table.

Yeah, yeah. And that's what Republicans say whenever a Democrat votes with their party. It's all partisan fluff.

[oxmixmudd]

That's assuming that Trump planned and orchestrated this with intent to take over the government. That's just silly.

It's not silly. It's what happened - without the cartoonish 'evil mastermind' caricature. I'm not claiming Trump had some step by step detailed plan or master outline sitting on his desk in 2018. It is not necessary nor is it likely. But he nevertheless fomented doubt and distrust and worked the crowd as it were up to Jan 6. Step by step he tried to make sure he kept the presidency. It started wirh Ukraine, which he got away with but did not get what he wanted from. But he clearly began sowing distrust in the election long before the actual election. His entire admistration has been based on sowing confusion and working it into what he wanted. By the time of the election he knew what he wanted which was to use the distrust he'd sown to win regardless. Everybody around him knew it too, they just didn't know how far he was willing to go with that goal. Don't forget he had crazies like Flynn telling him to invoke marshal law, and he knew he could count on groups like the proud boys as well. In the end. He tried the courts but there just was no one on the courts willing to pretend he had a case. Last he pushed for a violent invasion of the Capitol to stop the election certification and got at least the attempt.

And it makes no sense whatsoever to "strike this whole thing from the constitution" because it empowered the Democrats to proceed with their sham politically motivated impeachment, and for the Senate to use their political power to say no.

it wasn't a sham. Trump tried to coerce Ukraine into producing dirt on biden just like he tried to coerce GA into 'finding' missing votes. And he guite clearly stoked distrust and fury in his base before and after the election with the final result that his deluded followers where convinced they should invade and desecrate the capitol on his behalf, killing and wounding people along the way.