Animals are not OURS!!!

[Cow Poke]

Back when I was an ignorant, brainwashed Christian carnist like yourself, ...

This would be a good example of how NOT to win hearts and minds. Just sayin'.

[Diogenes]

From the same group that wants to abolish having pets but when various people came to their offices for interviews noticed how many had pets with them.

They also have a penchant for killing animals.

This from 2012:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/peter-...b_1296370.html

[Cow Poke]

They also have a penchant for killing animals.

This from 2012:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/peter-...b_1296370.html

Now, had Diogenes posted the link without the introductory statement - THAT would have been "argument by weblink".

And, yes, I've posted a number of cites showing that PETA has not caught onto the rapidly growing "no kill shelter" concept.

[Gondwanaland]

Yes sir. I apologized.

Fair enough. I can certainly get passionate on both topics, and I know people on the other side can as well. But honestly it was the straight up dismissal of what I spent time writing for you, answering a question I thought you were genuinely interested in the answer to, that really grinds my gears.

[Gondwanaland]

It's about winning the hearts and minds.

Since the analogy has been made about abortion - I come back to that.

Most of us fully realize we're not going to score any points by screaming at the young woman in trouble, or shaming her, or blowing up abortion clinics, or applauding those who do, etc....
We denounce those tactics because they are counterproductive.

We provide alternatives -- a safe place to dialogue, love and comfort, medical advice along with actual medical doctors and equipment, information, free sonograms.... of the hundreds of women who come through our pregnancy center, less than a handful have gone on to have abortions.

And yet there is more than one way to get to the hearts and minds. Some tactics work for some, some for others. Often a combination of both. A heated argument can get further under your skin than someone shrugging and saying nothing, only to emerge later at the right moment and change your mind.

[Gondwanaland]

This would be a good example of how NOT to win hearts and minds. Just sayin'.

The truth hurts the most when it's about you.

[Diogenes]

One thing I would agree with PETA on is I'm not a fan of traditional animal breeding for "breed purity". It's a bad genetic practice. Cross-breeding to make "designer breeds" like the labradoodle is somewhat better as it's crossing two breeds giving it a more diverse genetic make up. One thing I cannot stand are brachycephalic dogs. I wouldn't even associate with someone who owned a pug or an English bulldog. At least breeding animals for food has a purpose, breeding dogs because they look cute is no reason for the subject an animal to those health problems.

[Cow Poke]

And yet there is more than one way to get to the hearts and minds. Some tactics work for some, some for others. Often a combination of both. A heated argument can get further under your skin than someone shrugging and saying nothing, only to emerge later at the right moment and change your mind.

The other animal rights organizations are calling out PETA for their hypocrisy in killing animals. PETA even tries to justify it on their website. While there may truly be cases where an animal must be 'put down' because of extraordinary circumstances, that had nothing to do with the lawsuit I cited, for example, where they took a dog and killed it, and ended up settling that suit for $49,000.

When you run your agency in such a way that your PR campaigns pretty much bring universal disdain, mockery and scorn, something's wrong.

[Diogenes]

When you run your agency in such a way that your PR campaigns pretty much bring universal disdain, mockery and scorn, something's wrong.

They also have Pokemon and Mario flash games that are rather graphic as if people who enjoy Pokemon or Mario support animal cruelty in real life. To quote Lutheran Satire "sort of like how, if you like figure skating, you clubbed Nancy Kerrigan's knee". I'm not going to link them due to the graphical content.

[Mountain Man]

This indicates you have a strawman of atheism that you are beating at.

Then perhaps you can tell what atheism's "higher law" is that all beings are morally obligated to uphold?

No, it's not about humans being able to 'feel bad'. It's about them being capable of understanding that animals are sentient beings just like us and being able to apply basic Golden Rule thinking.

The "Golden Rule" doesn't apply until you can answer my first question.

[Mountain Man]

This would be a good example of how NOT to win hearts and minds. Just sayin'.

Statements like to me read as "I was an ignorant, brainwashed Christian before I became an ignorant, brainwashed atheist."

And it's usually followed by some extreme or overly literal interpretation of scripture which leaves me thinking, "If that's what you really think the Bible says then it's no wonder you're no longer a Christian."

[mossrose]

Statements like to me read as "I was an ignorant, brainwashed Christian before I became an ignorant, brainwashed atheist."

And it's usually followed by some extreme or overly literal interpretation of scripture which leaves me thinking, "If that's what you really think the Bible says then it's no wonder you're no longer a Christian."

Or never were in the first place.

[rogue06]

Back when I was an ignorant, brainwashed Christian carnist like yourself, I even sampled dog meat, on a mission trip in Asia. Back then I was so sure of my right, my 'dominion' over animals. That they were made to be our food. That brainwashing followed me even when I left my faith behind and became an atheist.

Sad, but anyone can break free of that brainwashing. For me it was the seeds planted by people saying the same things I'm saying now, making the same arguments I am making now, which sprouted and grew when my daughter - who became vegan several years earlier, finally challenged me, and challenged my morals, my principles, and my double standards I held for humans and for animals. Hopefull one day someone does the same for you.

Yeah, brain washed by the fact that Jesus himself provided fish to feed people and ate fish himself

Have you ever read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle? It was required reading in my Junior High School. The conditions there are what you still find in many Third World countries.

And the markets are only marginally better. My best friend's wife is a Filipina. When he expressed interest in moving to the Philippines after he retired she, who follows his lead even when she disagrees, put her foot down this time. One of the biggest reasons was the differences in markets and food quality here in comparison to where she was born.

In a lot of these places the beef and pork gets cooked well done because that is effectively the only safe way it can be consumed.

This is why I have to doubt your claim that you've seen what goes on in these regions and it is no different than what takes place here.

Further, if you ever have been in a slaughterhouse here in the U.S. or Canada you will see that they try to minimize the stress on the animals being processed. They want an environment where the animals aren't freaking out and in a panic. True, it's not all because of some sort of benevolence. Part of the reason is pure economics. Animals that are afraid have systems flushed with enzymes or what have you that actually reduce the quality of the meat.

[rogue06]

Anything that involves the slaughter of innocents is personal, and emotional, to people who care about the lives of those innocents. Whether they be innocent babies in the womb, or innocent animals abused and slaughtered by people who think they have the right to do so.

Again, I reject this PETA philosophy that "A rat is a pig, is a dog, is a boy"

[rogue06]

It's about winning the hearts and minds.

Since the analogy has been made about abortion - I come back to that.

Most of us fully realize we're not going to score any points by screaming at the young woman in trouble, or shaming her, or blowing up abortion clinics, or applauding those who do, etc....
We denounce those tactics because they are counterproductive.

We provide alternatives -- a safe place to dialogue, love and comfort, medical advice along with actual medical doctors and equipment, information, free sonograms.... of the hundreds of women who come through our pregnancy center, less than a handful have gone on to have abortions.

Wrt blowing up abortion clinics most pro-life folks I know don't renounce them because they're counterproductive but rather simple because it is wrong.