Riots in DC outside capitol building

[Charles]

And you seem to think you liberals can do whatever you want, and if anyone does the same you can handwave "whataboutism" as an excuse.

Nobody is excusing what those people did yesterday, We are merely saying that those of you who excused 4 years of such actions have no standing to complain now. You feed the beast then act surprised when it bites you.

I am not a liberal and have not excused any such actions so stop lying even though it might be tempting given the trouble you are in. You should have learned by now where that path will lead both you and others.

[Charles]

You have even less of a standing to complain about yesterday's riot, Charles. Your hypocrisy puts Ox's to shame.

Your personal attack does nothing to answer my post. Here it is again for your convenience: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...10#post1222444

Let's see if you can look at the content this time. Prediction: you will not be up to the task. Prove me wrong

[Sparko]

Your personal attack does nothing to answer my post. Here it is again for your convenience: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...10#post1222444

Let's see if you can look at the content this time. Prediction: you will not be up to the task. Prove me wrong

There is nothing to answer - just your typical Charles finger pointing. And as you have no leg to stand on here, I choose to ignore your whining. I have condemned the violence yesterday just like I have condemned it for the last 4 years, no matter who does it. Can you show me where you have done the same?

[rogue06]

I am not a liberal and have not excused any such actions so stop lying even though it might be tempting given the trouble you are in. You should have learned by now where that path will lead both you and others.

Oh do tell, what sort of trouble is Sparko in?


Did you whine to your mommy or something, and she told you that she would take care of it as she wiped your tears away and gave you a cookie?

[Charles]

There is nothing to answer - just your typical Charles finger pointing. And as you have no leg to stand on here, I choose to ignore your whining. I have condemned the violence yesterday just like I have condemned it for the last 4 years, no matter who does it. Can you show me where you have done the same?

In other words I was right, you could not answer it. And you falsely claimed I had "excused 4 years of such actions" and when told it was a lie, you are now trying to change focus.

Interesting once again. And you do realize that the lies, stupidity, constant spreading of falsehoods that you and other "Christians" have excused time and time again was part of what lead to what happened yesterday and to the big division in your country? Their idea that they were justified in doing what they did did not come out of nowhere, did it?

[Gondwanaland]

I understand she was attempting to enter another part of the building and was shot by a police officer.

looks more to me like she wastrying to get away from the crush of bodies as the police mere feet behind were pushing people up onto that landing. The shooter is lucky he didnt hit any of the cops, that could have ended even worse.

Certainly no better and Republicans can no longer claim any higher moral ground.

Sometimes you gotta get your hands dirty in the low ground if you're gonnhave any success against people that have lived on that low ground 4 years plus.

[kccd]

During the months of constant rioting the left had this nasty habit of blocking the exits of buildings they set on fire in an attempt to burn those inside alive.

Source: Portland protesters barricade courthouse with federal officers inside, then try to set it on fire

Portland protesters barricaded federal officers inside a courthouse -- and tried to set the building on fire -- as the two groups clashed again Tuesday night into Wednesday.

As hundreds chanted “Black lives matter” and “Feds go home,” a team of protesters propped several wooden beams and sandbags against a door to the Mark O. Hatfield Courthouse, according to tweets from Clypian, an online news outlet run by South Salem High School students.


Source

© Copyright Original Source

There were also videos of that.

Source: Community leaders condemn 'evil' acts of violence in Northeast Portland

A group of people set the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct on fire while people were inside, and looted and burned nearby businesses owned by people of color.

...

Around 10 p.m., the group began building a fence stretching from the police station across Emerson Street to the Boys and Girls Club. According to police, the crowd tried and failed to breach the police precinct’s doors and began barricading the doors instead to trap officers inside. Members of the group also began throwing things, including glass bottles, at officers.



Source

© Copyright Original Source

And a month later

Source: 'You can’t control people’s anger': Portland protesters set fire to police union headquarters as tensions rise again

As anger has been bubbling back up among demonstrators, Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler, who also serves as the city’s police commissioner, held a news conference on Thursday in which he likened some of the protesters’ actions to attempted murder. He pointed to a Wednesday night incident in which he said protesters barricaded exits to the Portland Police Bureau’s East Precinct building using cars and wooden planks and disabled security cameras, starting a fire that “was intended to cause serious injury or death, and it very well could have.”



Source

© Copyright Original Source

And that was just in Portland.

Interestingly, you had to go well down into the story to read about the blocking of the exits in an attempt to burn those inside alive in the last two stories.

There are certainly terrible things that have been done in past protests by a whole range of different groups. That is not the issue here. Whataboutism is not an argument or a mitigating factor.

The issue here is that Trump supporters, filled with lies about a "stolen election", and egged on by Trump himself, charged over to the Capitol at his direction, while Electoral College votes were being counted in a joint session. These people broke into the Capitol, vandalized the building, and had violent confrontations with police. This mob committed an act of terrorism that should be prosecuted.

[CivilDiscourse]

Thanks CD for that list. I cannot say I read all the linked articles, but I read more than one (yes, two) and it did get me thinking about both the reactions here in this thread and my own reaction to yesterday's events.

I would give you the point that many journalists have justified the criminal acts, in particular property damage, carried out by a minority of protesters in response to the deaths of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor, among others.

I think that you are right that these same journalists are not likely to be presenting justification for the the property damage carried out by a minority of protesters in yesterday's protest.

What I think is missing in your argument is the fact that not all justifications are equal. I suggest that you read one or more of your linked articles (The Nation article would be my first pick) and pay attention to the justifications which are presented. Then consider what justifications there were for yesterday's events.

On one side you have a history of "too many innocent people murdered, too many communities over-policed and otherwise neglected" and on the other you have a verified pathological liar claiming without proof that his clear loss in the last election was in fact a landslide victory for him. I see a difference there.

I think you are missing the point that I'm making. It doesn't matter that the justifications were nuanced, or that they had different reasons.

It's time and time again that it was justified. Political violence happens, and there's a slew of articles telling us why that violence was justified. There was tons of people saying that it wasn't that bad, that people were right to do it, that the circumstances mandated it.

Over and over and over.

The end result is that violent behavior was normalized. It became seen as an acceptable way to air your grievances. It didn't matter why someone would justify it, it mattered that they would. It was OK to punch a Nazi because they are bad people. Then as the definition of Nazi loosened, it became OK to be violent against them. It was OK to violently counter-protest a peaceful protest because the protesters were bad people. It was ok to burn buildings because CNN would call it peacful. It was OK to throw firebombs because the VP-candidate would get people to pay your bail and defense. It was ok to loot and riot because people would tell you that it was RIGHT this time.

Overall it builds up to "it's OK to be violent for political reasons" because over and over again, people came up with justifications as to why each "this time" was justified, and defensible. It became an acceptable tactic. You can't do that over and over and the pretend that when someone uses the tactic in a way you didn't forsee that your hands are clean.

[rogue06]

If you really want to see • Edited by a Moderator • is a video showing when the woman was shot. If you watch it it makes sense why only one person was shot and not more. NSFW / NSFL

Mods please edit this post if linking this isn't allowed.

So a protester was shot. Very much unlike what happened during the leftwing riots where antifa or BLM goons shot and killed the pair of black teens in Seattle as they approached the CHAZ/CHOP barricade and the 8 year old girl in Atlanta as her mother tried to make a U-turn in front of barricades or where the guy hid in the dark and shot and killed the pro-Trump counter-demonstrator in an ambush.

Btw, I'm going to edit the link for now so it can be discussed. It is fairly graphic

[CivilDiscourse]

Ah the schoolyard excuse. "They did it first Miss".

Actually it was a counter point to your flippant "They didn't do X" comment. They did do X, just at the local government.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Well, well, well. You "condemn" it while claiming it was a consequence of "four years of violence and terrorism". Interesting opinion.

With regard to the "every conservative" I notice how many of the usual suspects are absent from this thread. Looking forward to seeing conservatives in large numbers in here provide a condemnation that does not involve "whataboutism" and the like.

In my case, I have simply come to recognize that violence as a means to promote political agendas is now viewed as legitimate in the US by ALL parties and condemning it is now pointless and useless.

[seer]

looks more to me like she wastrying to get away from the crush of bodies as the police mere feet behind were pushing people up onto that landing. The shooter is lucky he didnt hit any of the cops, that could have ended even worse.

Time to defund the Capitol Police!

[Gondwanaland]

Actually it was a counter point to your flippant "They didn't do X" comment. They did do X, just at the local government.

Just the gall of her trying to complain about "whataboutism", etc. When she is literally the one who directly compared this group with antifa/BLM and tried to claim this group was worse.

[seanD]

I was actually surprised that it wasn't worse. I can't imagine what will happen if the Dems try to pack the court or make Puerto Rico or DC states.

These weren't even armed and trained militias, and folks are talking about a coup.

[seer]