Riots in DC outside capitol building

[rogue06]

I don't think the liberals here realize that we have over four years of evidence to throw in their face when they try to gaslight us regarding normalizing violence.

That was different because OMB.

[Sparko]

It is a lie no matter how many times you would like to claim so. You will not be able to show any post where I support it, liar.

You did it right in the post I was responding to. And I have reported your calling me a liar. show me a post where you condemn the riots of the last year?

[Charles]

There are certainly terrible things that have been done in past protests by a whole range of different groups. That is not the issue here. Whataboutism is not an argument or a mitigating factor.

The issue here is that Trump supporters, filled with lies about a "stolen election", and egged on by Trump himself, charged over to the Capitol at his direction, while Electoral College votes were being counted in a joint session. These people broke into the Capitol, vandalized the building, and had violent confrontations with police. This mob committed an act of terrorism that should be prosecuted.

This is the rather evident truth but some "Christians" in here have given up their own standard and depend on whataboutism. Rogue seem to think that if the post is really long it will somehow do the trick that whataboutism never does. He has had quite many chances to learn it.

Not easy te repent after years and years slowly going for a lower and lower standard.

[Gondwanaland]

The GOP unfairly added 2 justices to the Supreme Court - the first was stolen from Obama with a bogus excuse, and the second was made by ignoring the excuse they used to deny Obama's appointment.

This above shows basic lack of historical knowledge.

nothing was "stolen" from Obama. He made a nomination with a Senate that was the opposite party from him. In election year cases, when such a situation occurs, theSenate almost always blocks and waits. When you have a president in an election yearwith a Senate made of hisown party, the nominations in those times almost always get through. This is not new. This has happened since the founding fathers. It has happened, in both ways, to most presidents.

there was nothing "unfair" or "stolen". Just historical prescedent continuing in both cases.

[Thoughtful Monk]

This logic is really failing me. Not all political agendas are equal.

If someone is enslaved in an authoritarian regime and a guard is killed to gain that persons freedom, justifications could be presented for that act of violence.

If a country has unfair tax laws and someone bombs the Tax Revenue collectors offices, justifications could be presented for that act of violence.

Both of these involve violence as a means to promote a political agenda, but that does not make them both equally justified. It all depends on context. It is possible that the second example is in fact more justified the than the first, maybe the inverse. We cannot judge without first analyzing the justifications.

This idea that because some writers provided justifications for the violence seen during the protests across the country earlier this year, that this automatically justifies the violence seen yesterday is nonsensical.

I didn't say any of the violence is or isn't justified. I am not commenting on whether or not it is justified. Nor am I commenting on any political agenda.

I am saying that the violence is now normalized.

[seer]

The GOP unfairly added 2 justices to the Supreme Court - the first was stolen from Obama with a bogus excuse, and the second was made by ignoring the excuse they used to deny Obama's appointment.
And yes, some Dems want to add justices to SCOTUS, but 1) the Constitution does not set the size of SCOTUS which has changed over the years, and has not changed significantly in response to the increased size of the US population and legal complexity, and 2) Biden is not in the group that wants to increase the size of SCOTUS.

1. What the GOP did was to exercise their Constitutional powers. Just as if Biden wanted to pack the court it would be his right to try.

2. Biden never really answered the question on court packing.

3. And your definition of court packing was wrong.

So it matters who went first? The fact is that Republicans also eliminated the filibuster for SCOTUS appointments. In any case, the filibuster is not mentioned in the Constitution, so why is it sacred?

The Republicans were just following the Dems example what it comes to Judges. Whether the filibuster for law is sacred or not - Schumer said it was on the table. Even the Republicans wouldn't do that - they could have.

Actually, I think the 2 of the last 5 governors of Puerto Rico have been Republicans.

So?

The important thing about representation is that it represent the people it is meant to represent. If people favor Dems and Dem policies, then Dems should hold elected office. If your positions do not appeal to the majority of voters, you should not be elected. There is no rule that an unpopular party has to have equal representation. In many states, Republicans hold majorities although most votes are cast for Democrats, and this is due to gerrymandering, which should be abolished.

1. You don't think the Dems gerrymander?
2. One party rule leads to tyranny which the Dems are after.

[Charles]

You did it right in the post I was responding to. And I have reported your calling me a liar. show me a post where you condemn the riots of the last year?

You claimed I supported it. Show it. Go ahead.

[Sparko]

You claimed I supprted it. Show it. Go ahead.

You are the liar. I never claimed you "supported" it.

[casaba]

I didn't say any of the violence is or isn't justified. I am not commenting on whether or not it is justified. Nor am I commenting on any political agenda.

I am saying that the violence is now normalized.

What does "normalized" mean to you?

Edit:
I mean to ask, in relation to 'violence committed in order to advance a political agenda', what does "normalized" mean for for?

[casaba]

The riots this summer were largely based on the systemic police racism - i.e. particularly the inordinate killing of black men by police. Which is a falsehood. Just as "hands up don't shoot" was a falsehood.

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/...-police-racism

I am just giving that a read now. Though I thought I might present a companion piece for those interested:
https://retractionwatch.com/2020/07/08/retraction-of-paper-on-police-killings-and-race-not-due-to-mob-pressure-or-distaste-for-the-political-views-of-people-citing-the-work-approvingly-say-authors/?preview=true

[Charles]

You are the liar. I never claimed you "supported" it.

Well if you insist that excusing it (which I never did) and "feeding the monster" (which I never did) is not support, then you might have a good case. You might want to express yourself better then. You claim I excused it for 4 years. Then you should be able to show quotes in huge numbers. Looking forward.

So, if you would rather insist on finding examples where I excused it, go ahead. Show it, Sparko. Go ahead. Where did I feed the monter? Show it, go ahead.

So far you have made many false claims. I suggest you start providing quotes to support the statements you make. It will however make it harder to just make some claim out of the blue.

You have also falsely claimed I am liberal.

And where, exactly where, did I ever seem to think "liberals" can do whatever they want? Show it, go ahead.


Here are some examples of what you wrote:

And you seem to think you liberals can do whatever you want, and if anyone does the same you can handwave "whataboutism" as an excuse.

Nobody is excusing what those people did yesterday, We are merely saying that those of you who excused 4 years of such actions have no standing to complain now. You feed the beast then act surprised when it bites you.

LOL. So you want to characterize years of leftist violence as Christian's fault and you claim that me saying you have excused 4 years of such actions a lie? Go on, pull the other one.

[rogue06]

There are certainly terrible things that have been done in past protests by a whole range of different groups. That is not the issue here. Whataboutism is not an argument or a mitigating factor.

The issue here is that Trump supporters, filled with lies about a "stolen election", and egged on by Trump himself, charged over to the Capitol at his direction, while Electoral College votes were being counted in a joint session. These people broke into the Capitol, vandalized the building, and had violent confrontations with police. This mob committed an act of terrorism that should be prosecuted.

Nearly every conservative poster here has condemned the violence in Washington, while most of the liberals kept making excuses for the violence last year. They lost their moral authority plain and simple.

[Sparko]

Well if you insist that excusing it (which I never did) and "feeding the monster" (which I never did) is not support, then you might have a good case. You might want to express yourself better then. You claim I excused it for 4 years. Then you should be able to show quotes in huge numbers. Looking forward.

So, if you would rather insist on finding examples where I excused it, go ahead. Show it, Sparko. Go ahead. Where did I feed the monter? Show it, go ahead.

So far you have made many false claims. I suggest you start providing quotes to support the statements you make. It will however make it harder to just make some claim out of the blue.

You have also falsely claimed I am liberal.

And where, exactly where, did I ever seem to think "liberals" can do whatever they want? Show it, go ahead.


Here are some examples of what you wrote:

"those of you" is speaking of a general "you" Chuckypoo.

And you did excuse it in the very post where you tried to blame Christians for what the left has been doing for the last 4 years. And if you can't even get your accusations about me correct, then you shouldn't go around tossing out words like "liar"

Now, show me one post where you have condemned the riots of the last year. Go on. I will wait.

[seer]

I am just giving that a read now. Though I thought I might present a companion piece for those interested:
https://retractionwatch.com/2020/07/...-in-the-media/

Right, I knew about that, they caved to PC. It doesn't change the facts. Blacks are 13% of the population yet commit 50% of murders and 40% of robberies. No wonder there is more police interaction where something can go wrong. Never mind he fact that police shooting of whites are about twice as many a year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...olice-by-race/

According to the FBI, African Americans accounted for 52.4% of all homicide offenders in 2018, with Whites 43.1% and "Other"/Unknown 4.4%. Of these, 15.4% were Hispanic or Latino. The per-capita offending rate for African Americans was roughly six times higher than Whites, and the victim rate is a similar figure. Most homicides were intraracial, with 81% of White victims killed by Whites and 89% of African American victims killed by African Americans.^[44][45]

African Americans account for the majority of gun homicide victims and arrestees in the US while Whites (including Hispanics) account for the majority of non-gun homicide victims and arrestees. Of the gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 and 2016, 57% were black, 40.6% white (including Hispanic), 1.35% Asian, 0.98% unknown race and 0.48% indigenous American. Non-gun homicides represented about 30% of total murders in the time period. African Americans were also over-represented in such homicides, by about 2.5 times their share of the general population.^[46] Of the non-gun murder victims in the United States between 2007 to 2016, 61.5% were white (including Hispanic), 32.9% black, 2.29% Asian, 1.89% unknown race and 1.43% indigenous American.^[47]

According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2008 black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness. Racial disparities in arrest have consistently been far less among older population groups.<sup>[51]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#:~:text=Overal l%2C%20black%20(49%25)%20and,(50%25%20and%2051%25) .</sup>

[Charles]

You did excuse it in the very post where you tried to blame Christians for what the left has been doing for the last 4 years. And if you can't even get your accusations about me correct, then you shouldn't go around tossing out words like "liar"

Now, show me one post where you have condemned the riots of the last year. Go on. I will wait.

Again, show the posts you claim should somehow exist. You were talking about excusing it for four years and feeding the monter and yet you provide 0 quotes. Not even a single one. Nothing.

Go ahead Sparko.