"Git a Rope" is Racist?

[Cow Poke]

I'm kinda surprised how many people in this thread aren't familiar with that old Picante salsa commercial, or the numerous old cowboy films that it's calling back on. "Git a rope" is an old Western slang phrase. So much so that the English Old School punk band, Cock Sparrer, actually titled a song "Get a Rope". As far as I can tell it has no explicit racist connotations, but was itself a callback to the Western phrase. Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit is one of my favorite songs, and incredibly sad, but before seeing this thread, I never associated the phrase "Git a rope" with black lynchings. Perhaps it's an age thing, but "Git a rope" always recalls old Westerns like Hang 'Em High and the like.

I guess it's the world we live in.... just about anything can be seen as racist if you look hard enough, and those of us whose minds don't first race (pun not intended) to the racist interpretation are, necessarily, racist for using the term or phrase because we're insensitive.

It's really sad.

I remember the first time somebody blew up when I used the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I was, quite obviously, purposely being racist and hateful. And, no, I don't use that phrase anymore. (there's actually an interesting history behind that phrase, which predates the use of "spade" as a racial slur)

[mossrose]

I guess it's the world we live in.... just about anything can be seen as racist if you look hard enough, and those of us whose minds don't first race (pun not intended) to the racist interpretation are, necessarily, racist for using the term or phrase because we're insensitive.

It's really sad.

I remember the first time somebody blew up when I used the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I was, quite obviously, purposely being racist and hateful. And, no, I don't use that phrase anymore. (there's actually an interesting history behind that phrase, which predates the use of "spade" as a racial slur)

I remember years ago in church one day, we were waiting to leave after the service and a line had formed to shake the pastor's hand. For some reason my mascara had flaked a bit, and my husband took his thumb to wipe a few specks off from under my eye. I asked him what was there, and he said something like, "You have some black stuff under your eye".

A black man who was standing near us turned and gave my husband a look that could have killed. I never understood why he got so offended over the word "black", as if we should not have been allowed to even use THAT word in his presence. He never said anything, and neither did we, but we still wonder what he thought we were saying/doing.

And that was at least 25 years ago.

[Cow Poke]

I remember years ago in church one day, we were waiting to leave after the service and a line had formed to shake the pastor's hand. For some reason my mascara had flaked a bit, and my husband took his thumb to wipe a few specks off from under my eye. I asked him what was there, and he said something like, "You have some black stuff under your eye".

A black man who was standing near us turned and gave my husband a look that could have killed. I never understood why he got so offended over the word "black", as if we should not have been allowed to even use THAT word in his presence. He never said anything, and neither did we, but we still wonder what he thought we were saying/doing.

And that was at least 25 years ago.

Yeah, for a while there, it was hard to keep up with the progression of 'you can say negro, but not (the N word), then black was racist, then "black is beautiful", "people of color", African-American.... I just try to call them by their name.

[Adrift]

I guess it's the world we live in.... just about anything can be seen as racist if you look hard enough, and those of us whose minds don't first race (pun not intended) to the racist interpretation are, necessarily, racist for using the term or phrase because we're insensitive.

It's really sad.

I remember the first time somebody blew up when I used the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I was, quite obviously, purposely being racist and hateful. And, no, I don't use that phrase anymore. (there's actually an interesting history behind that phrase, which predates the use of "spade" as a racial slur)

I'm reminded of the time when David Howard used the word "niggardly" in a sentence, and received a ton of chaff for it, even though that word has no etymological connection to the word that people were chaffing about. A friend of mine posted a link to about a dozen or so phrases that had so-called racist connotations. Doing just a bit of digging revealed that more than half of them had no absolutely no racist connections whatsoever. Legend and misinterpretation had just grown around them.

You're correct to say that it is just the "age we live in" in the US. Recently I was reading on Reddit a South American poster talking about how oddly politically charged language was here in the States. How certain words and phrases have become PC verboten here, but in his own home country the same or similar words and phrases carry with them absolutely no sense of weight or ill intent. It isn't that there are more racist people in South America, it's just that they do not even think of being sensitive about these same things. It doesn't even enter their minds that these words or phrases carry derogatory themes, and they see North Americans as extremely silly for putting so much political and social meaning behind them. So, for instance, when talking about their black friend Felipe, they might distinguish him from other Felipe's by calling him "black Felipe". In their minds there is absolutely no racist intent behind using this name phrase, and black Felipe himself doesn't even register that it is any sort of racist name. It's just alien to them. I remember when living in Germany that there was a whole section of music at the record shop called "black music" that was filled with hiphop albums. I thought it was pretty funny at the time, and so did my black friends, but there was absolutely no ill intent behind that labeling. It was just the most convenient labeling they knew of, and meant nothing by it. No one (no one that I knew anyways) was offended by it.

Funny side story, completely unrelated. I had very very few white friends in the military. Almost all of my friends were either black or Hispanic. I remember one time friends and I were walking through some German village and they were taking pictures like mad men. I turned to them, and was like, "dude, put that camera away, you're making us look like a bunch of tourists." One of my friends turned to me and was like, "Man, I'm black. I'm always going to look like a tourist in Germany." I laughed, and had to admit he had a point. Anyhow, I digress.

[Jedidiah]

I take it you've never listened to rap music or listened to any black stand up comedians? Or seen Larry Wilmore do, like, anything?

I do not listen to rap, and I have no idea who Larry Wilmore is. I assume he is black. It is okay for blacks to use the word, but it is a horrible blunder for whites.

I am talking about using it in everyday language.

I remember a story about a young black man hitch hiking who was picked up by an older white man. The older man used the "N word" to the young man. He, the young guy, was uncomfortable with the word and finally said so. The old guy responded with surprise, "Why is that, you are one aren't you?"

In other words it was just a word to the old guy that applied to blacks. He had no negative attached to it. Why can we not use it like that today? All this pussy footing around just exacerbates the racial divide.

[Cow Poke]

I'm reminded of the time when David Howard used the word "niggardly" in a sentence, and received a ton of chaff for it, even though that word has no etymological connection to the word that people were chaffing about. A friend of mine posted a link to about a dozen or so phrases that had so-called racist connotations. Doing just a bit of digging revealed that more than half of them had no absolutely no racist connections whatsoever. legend and misinterpretation had just grown around them.

Yup! I remember that!

You're correct to say that it is just the "age we live in" in the US. Recently I was reading on Reddit a South American poster talking about how oddly politically charged language was here in the States. How certain words and phrases have become PC verboten here, but in his own home country the same or similar words and phrases carry with them absolutely no sense of weight or ill intent. It wasn't that there are more racist people in South America, it's just that they do not even think of being sensitive about these same things. It doesn't even enter their minds that these words or phrases carry derogatory themes, and they see North Americans as extremely silly for putting so much political and social meaning behind them. So, for instance, when talking about their black friend Felipe, they might distinguish him from other Felipe's by calling him "black Felipe". In their minds there is absolutely no racist intent behind using this name phrase, and black Felipe himself doesn't even register that it is any sort of racist name. It's just alien to them. I remember when living in Germany that there was a whole section of music at the record shop called "black music" that was filled with hiphop albums. I thought it was pretty funny at the time, and so did my black friends, but there was absolutely no ill intent behind that labeling. It was just the most convenient labeling they knew of, and meant nothing by it. No one (no one that I knew anyways) was offended by it.

Funny side story, completely unrelated. I had very very few white friends in the military. Almost all of my friends were either black or Hispanic. I remember one time a friends and I were walking through some German village and they were taking pictures like mad men. I turned to them, and was like, "dude, put that camera away, you're making us look like a bunch of tourists." One of my friends turned to me and was like, "Man, I'm black. I'm always going to look like a tourist in Germany." I laughed, and had to admit he had a point. Anyhow, I digress.

OK, you done it....

I had a black Pastor friend, and they were having a new building dedication. This is a big thing, and they'd have several preachers, all day meeting and dinner on the grounds. I was invited to preach, and my youth choir was invited to sing. The auditorium seated about 850, and my 30 white kids were sitting on the first two rows, just to the (stage) left of the pastor. When it came time for our kids to sing, the pastor said, "Now, we'll have a special treat, because the youth group from First Baptist Church is going to sing"... then he pretended to be straining to see all over the auditorium, searching for the 30 white kids in a sea of black faces.... "Would the youth group from First Baptist please raise your hands so I can see where you are" I was busting a gut laughing, as were many of his congregation, and one of my kids waved both arms, "over here". I still laugh about that. Pastor Brown feigned "sudden recognition" -- "oh, there you are, please come on up..."

[Jedidiah]

Yeah, for a while there, it was hard to keep up with the progression of 'you can say negro, but not (the N word), then black was racist, then "black is beautiful", "people of color", African-American.... I just try to call them by their name.

I got tired of all the changes. I don't particularly want to offend anyone, but I just say black and let the chips fall where they may. I especially never use African American, and won't until the term European American is widely used by blacks. Even then I probably won't use it. And then there are black Englishmen, etc.

[mossrose]

I got tired of all the changes. I don't particularly want to offend anyone, but I just say black and let the chips fall where they may. I especially never use African American, and won't until the term European American is widely used by blacks. Even then I probably won't use it. And then there are black Englishmen, etc.

I wouldn't even know what to say here. African Canadian just sounds silly. And the movement is Black Lives Matter, not African American/Canadian/European/Asian Lives Matter.

So, who knows?

[Cow Poke]

I do not listen to rap, and I have no idea who Larry Wilmore is. I assume he is black. It is okay for blacks to use the word, but it is a horrible blunder for whites.

It was not at all unusual, back in my police days, to be around situations where several blacks were involved in a fight, and they'd be yelling at each other calling each other the N word, and "I'm going to whoop your black ***", and worse. One time, one of the blacks who was standing BEHIND me called another black the N word, and that guy thought it was me calling him the name. He started walking toward me in a very threatening manner. Fortunately, the guy behind me cleared things up by bragging that HE was the one "calling the other guy out", and the fight raged on. I decided to step back and let them wear themselves out a bit while I waited for backup. Discretion is, indeed, the better part of valor.

[rogue06]

I got tired of all the changes. I don't particularly want to offend anyone, but I just say black and let the chips fall where they may. I especially never use African American, and won't until the term European American is widely used by blacks. Even then I probably won't use it. And then there are black Englishmen, etc.

A late friend of mine was born in Morocco and his mother was half French and half Berber. He loved referring to himself as an African-American purely because of the confusion it sowed.

[Adrift]

I got tired of all the changes. I don't particularly want to offend anyone, but I just say black and let the chips fall where they may. I especially never use African American, and won't until the term European American is widely used by blacks. Even then I probably won't use it. And then there are black Englishmen, etc.

Same. I don't make a big deal of it. Honestly, when I see people tripping over themselves walking on egg shells, in my head, they're the ones that are making a distinction that I don't. I love people from all backgrounds and cultures. I was raised with the words,

"Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world."

My parents came from family who was racist as all get out, and my parents willfully made the decision not to pass that on to me, and through the love of God eventually changed their own parent's thinking. My grandpa was an old time Midwestern racist. Used to yell at the TV whenever a black criminal was on the news. About 10 years ago, my grandpa was diagnosed with cancer. Black friends of my parents (who go to a largely black church) went to his hospital room and spent a day praying over him. It had a radical change on him. He became a big teddy bear, and it totally changed his impression of black people. Totally changed a man in his later years of life. Tell me that people are set in their ways, that people can't change, I'll show you a man who, through the grace, and love afforded us by Christ, did a 180.

[Zymologist]

I guess it's the world we live in.... just about anything can be seen as racist if you look hard enough, and those of us whose minds don't first race (pun not intended) to the racist interpretation are, necessarily, racist for using the term or phrase because we're insensitive.

It's really sad.

I remember the first time somebody blew up when I used the phrase "calling a spade a spade". I was, quite obviously, purposely being racist and hateful. And, no, I don't use that phrase anymore. (there's actually an interesting history behind that phrase, which predates the use of "spade" as a racial slur)

I've never heard of "spade" as a racial slur, either.

[rogue06]

I've never heard of "spade" as a racial slur, either.

It's an older term, very rarely used these days.

[Adrift]

It's an older term, very rarely used these days.

I'm such a geek. I read this and immediately thought Star Wars

[Starlight]

The obsession with "correct" terminology seems a uniquely US phenomena. I don't see it occurring anything close to the same extent here or in other countries that I follow.

That's not to say that there aren't language guidelines around the place - I assume that doctors and teachers etc here get taught how to talk to their patients & students with sensitivity as part of their general training. But I'm trying to think of the last time I heard/saw someone trying to advocate for politically-correct terminology in the national media, and am struggling to think of anything. Maybe half a dozen years ago I heard someone suggesting that people shouldn't use the term "disabled people" and instead should talk about "people with disabilities" because the fact that they are people comes first...?

I wonder why the US seems to have a higher rate of terminology arguments / attempts to enforce a "correct" use of language...?

One speculative thought I had was that it might be because the US is much more deeply divided on a lot of these issues than are more liberal Western countries. I believe racism is much more common and much more deeply entrenched in the US than it is here, for example, and I can imagine that the presence of people regularly using anti-black terms with malice, inspires the liberals to fight against such terminology. Similarly with gay and transgender issues.

Another speculative thought I had was that it might be the lack of hate-speech laws in the US. Many Western countries prohibit extremist terminology by law, and that effectively shuts down any public expression of nastiness in the media, so any malicious use of negative terminology occurs on a local and not a national level and as a result the offensive terms don't spread into widespread usage because the conduit for spreading them nationally isn't present.

Maybe it's just cultural? Some of the core values that I think defines Kiwi culture is politeness, consideration for others, and being extremely indirect in any complaints about other people. Using nasty or offensive terms about other people is considered beyond the pale and not at all cool, and so there's not really a need to police malicious language, and any time people do suggest a terminology change and explain the reasons for it, most people are likely to be pretty receptive.